| janfields |
April 29, 2008. Welcome
to afternoon open forum with moderator Jan Fields. Do you have
anything you want to know today?
|
| soradina |
What do you do if all
your targeted publishers say on their
|
| soradina |
website that they are not
accepting submissions from new
|
| soradina |
authors?
|
| janfields |
Well, that would pretty
much stink, I have to admit.
|
| janfields |
Maybe cast your net a
bit further, or else begin
|
| janfields |
soliciting agents (if
you're talking about book submissions)
|
| janfields |
If you're talking about
magazine submissions,
|
| janfields |
I would table the
submission, and try working on some for open
markets
|
| janfields |
since you only have to
sell one thing to then be able to move your tabled submission
up
|
| janfields |
There are still
publishers who are open to new writers, but sometimes it takes
digging or being open to smaller presses.
|
| janfields |
I have friends who
began with small presses (not bitty but places lie
Lewellyn)
|
| janfields |
who are now selling to
Harper Collins
|
| janfields |
and getting top shelf
agents.
|
| janfields |
So, sometimes you have
to go with who is open to hearing.
|
| soradina |
These are all book
publishers.
|
| janfields |
Yeah, the big
publishers, the ones we see most in bookstores, reviews and
libraries
|
| janfields |
are increasingly grumpy
about new writers.
|
| janfields |
You can usually submit
to them if you're a regular conference goes
|
| janfields |
because MOST of these
closed houses send editors to conferences
|
| janfields |
and conference
attendees (even unpublished ones) can submit
|
| janfields |
That's the publisher's
way of being a teeny bit open to new talent.
|
| janfields |
But basically, they
don't want to hire the staff to read slush, so they're putting up
rules to cut down onit.
|
| janfields |
Another idea is to
create a really killer query because some of them are open to
queries...and if you wow them, they'll overlook your lack of
credits
|
| george
kulz |
Do you know what the deal
is at ByLine magazine? I know you had sent an Email out to them
recently. They have not responded to my submission in awhile
now.
|
| janfields |
I do not know. I sent
an unanswered email...and usually they will answer
me.
|
| janfields |
They may just be
swamped
|
| janfields |
Or it may be something
worse.
|
| janfields |
I would probably write
them off for now...and try back say in early fall.
|
| janfields |
Or late
summer.
|
| janfields |
Often the end of a
season signals a kind of die back in submissions and stress for some
odd reason.
|
| soradina |
I wrote to my instructor
about it and am waiting for his
|
| soradina |
response.
|
| janfields |
Since he is familiar
with the work in question, the actual story you want to
sell
|
| janfields |
he may be able to
suggest some publishers that you haven't
considered.
|
| janfields |
So it sounds like
you're doing exactly the right thing.
|
| ccollier |
Should I have a contract
if I'm in the Summer issue of JAKES
|
| ccollier |
this is my first
time
|
| ccollier |
ok maybe ill just get it
all published
|
| janfields |
Okay, I checked their
entry in the market guide and they say "rights
vary"
|
| janfields |
that suggests they
normally work with a contract
|
| janfields |
since without a
contract, the only rights you get is "one time use"
|
| janfields |
That's the
law.
|
| janfields |
Now, it kind of depends
on when the summer issue comes out.
|
| janfields |
If it's June...I would
be expecting a contract soon is not already.
|
| janfields |
They pay on
publication, so they aren't just sitting on it to avoid payment --
like some magazines have done before.
|
| janfields |
Pay on acceptance
magazines used to sit on a sub until the magazine was ready to come
out and then send a contract and payment
|
| janfields |
which stunk since you
might have given up on them and moved on.
|
| janfields |
But since JAKES is pay
on publication, but if they're summer issue comes out...say in JULY,
you just might not have gotten it yet.
|
| janfields |
Small-ish magazines
rarely do anythng fast.
|
| pjhausman |
This is kind of a f/u to
soradina's question: can you talk about getting an agent? I always
thought that getting a good agent was as difficult as getting a good
publisher - except that when you get one, you still don't have a
sale. . .
|
| pjhausman |
Plus, I recognize the
names of the publishers; I wouldn't know a good agent from a bad
one.
|
| janfields |
Wow, do I have a great
resource for YOU
|
| janfields |
Do you see the smiling
man in the chat window above you?
|
| janfields |
Well, it turns out he
JUST wrote a guide to agents
|
| janfields |
and put it on his
website.
|
| janfields |
Lots of great
information...and right from an editor's mouth.
|
| janfields |
It's at
http://www.underdown.org
|
| janfields |
The site is called THE
PURPLE CRAYON
|
| janfields |
It was the FIRST
website I ever found specifically for children's
writing
|
| janfields |
and it's still one of
the best
|
| janfields |
and he recently wrote a
guide for folks starting the agent hunt.
|
| janfields |
Now, after having given
that resource...you can find a good agent list
|
| janfields |
in the back of the
Children's Writers and Illustrator's Market
|
| janfields |
a book carried in
bookstores AND in the reference department of most public
libraries.
|
| janfields |
So if you cannot afford
one, you can go to your library reference
department
|
| janfields |
and just sit and copy
out the agent list...it's a couple pages
|
| janfields |
And although it doesn't
have EVERY agent for children's books'=
|
| janfields |
it does have good
reputable ones
|
| janfields |
And it'll give you
information about them.
|
| janfields |
There are a lot of good
agents out there...but I would make sure to google ANY agent's name
before submitting to him/her
|
| janfields |
just to see what I can
learn
|
| janfields |
Some agents (like
Nathan Bransford, for example) have blogs filled with helpful
advice.
|
| janfields |
You can also check out
the BEWARE board at
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums
|
| janfields |
and ask about any agent
you find the name of...just to see what they may
know.
|
| janfields |
They're probably only
going to know the big names -- big scammers or big children's
agents, because the board has so few children's
writers.
|
| janfields |
But they can be
helpful.
|
| janfields |
And finally,
http://www.verlakay.com/forums also has an "agents"
board
|
| janfields |
with information about
submissions and response times
|
| janfields |
of specific
agents.
|
| janfields |
So, between all of that
-- you'll know more than me. :-)
|
| soradina |
When are publishers going
to be more open to accepting
|
| soradina |
submissions from new
writers?
|
| janfields |
That would be
never.
|
| janfields |
Sadly, the problem lies
in the number of us
|
| janfields |
vs. the willingness of
publishers to spend money.
|
| janfields |
It costs money to hire
help to read slush.
|
| janfields |
And most slush is time
consuming and really really bad.
|
| janfields |
But even the bad stuff,
takes a certain amount of time to read the first page and skim a
couple more and put it in an envelope for
rejection.
|
| janfields |
When you have thousands
of pieces of this, it's a time consuming job.
|
| janfields |
So publishers are
looking for ways to avoid slush...it's not that they want to avoid
new writers.
|
| janfields |
they just want to avoid
slush.
|
| janfields |
And they can't do one
without doing the other.
|
| janfields |
So they use agents as
gatekeepers.
|
| janfields |
They use contests as
gatekeepers
|
| janfields |
They use conferences as
gatekeepers
|
| janfields |
All to allow them to
close the doors on slush while still getting the occassional good
new writer.
|
| chitownlady |
Are there people who read
the submissions first?
|
| janfields |
There used to be and at
some publishers there are.
|
| janfields |
They are called
assistants.
|
| janfields |
The problem is...they
have a bizillion other jobs.
|
| janfields |
And slush keeps them
away from those other jobs.
|
| janfields |
So, eliminating slush
lets them do other stuff -- even though they don't hate us, they
just wish writers wouldn't submit without learning to write, read
guidelines, and be selective in submissions.
|
| janfields |
But since writers seem
LESS inclined to do those things instead of more...well, we have a
problem.
|
| soradina |
If publishers aren't open
to accepting submissions then what
|
| soradina |
is ICL's role in helping
new writers get published?
|
| janfields |
Lots of publishers are
open to accepting submissions.
|
| janfields |
The big publishers are
far from ALL the publishers.
|
| janfields |
And ICL's role is to
help you be NOT one of the writers who send things too
early
|
| janfields |
or who send without
studying the market
|
| janfields |
or send shot gun
submissions
|
| janfields |
The book publisher
guide has more publishers who DO accept submissions (or at least
queries) than those who don't.
|
| janfields |
But ICL can't make the
big publishers open back up, unfortunately it's writers who forced
them to close
|
| janfields |
and writers aren't
going to change how they act.
|
| george
kulz |
Sorry to hear about your
foot. I have another question though. Do you think it's ever OK to
give up your rights to a story, even if there's a chance to get your
name out to a wider audience?
|
| janfields |
Actually I've sold all
rights a bunch of times.
|
| janfields |
And I've done work for
hire, which amounts to the same thing.
|
| janfields |
Honestly, reprint
rights are (in my experience, though not the experience of all) way
overrated.
|
| janfields |
I don't sell
reprints...so why not let the publisher have it?
|
| janfields |
Now some writers are
just bloodhounds about tracking down piles of markets for each
piece
|
| janfields |
especially nonfiction
writers -- and for them, it doesn't pay to sell all
rights.
|
| janfields |
But with the way the
magazine markets are going in terms of finances...
|
| janfields |
we're going to see more
and more magazines asking for all rights, I suspect
|
| janfields |
It's more cost
effective for them...it doesn't help us a lick, since it encourages
them to recycle content
|
| janfields |
but it's probably the
way things are.
|
| janfields |
The computer has
created a flood of writers at the same time that "No CHILD LEFT
BEHIND" has closed down a huge portion of the buying
base.
|
| janfields |
Schools and Libraries
are buying fewer magazines and books
|
| janfields |
and they were the major
market for quality work.
|
| janfields |
So, times are a little
tough...it's time to knuckle down and really be serious about the
quality of your craft
|
| janfields |
because good will trump
bad in an even competition (we won't talk about what celebs do to
even competitions)
|
| janfields |
It's a time to spend as
much time on choosing and researching the market as we spend on
polishing the work.
|
| janfields |
So we're being wise in
submissions...because shotgunning is making things worse, not
better.
|
| chitownlady |
Does that mean they can
use your work w/o your name?
|
| janfields |
"All rights" generally
doesn't -- but "work for hire" does.
|
| janfields |
Work for hire is as if
they wrote it themselves, and it does not HAVE to have your name on
it
|
| janfields |
But often
will.
|
| janfields |
All rights virtually
always has your name on it.
|
| janfields |
But it does mean they
can resell to a testing company without paying you.
|
| janfields |
Some will send you a
check if they resell, but many won't.
|
| pjhausman |
Would you urge us
book-writer wannabes to get an agent? 'cause I don't see markets
that aren't open to new writers; they're not open to UNAGENTED
writers. And the ones that are seem to be closing
fast.
|
| janfields |
Yes, if you write
novels -- you probably should get an agent. It's going to open more
doors.
|
| janfields |
It isn't easy, but
again, if you've got a competitive manuscript, it's not near
impossible.
|
| janfields |
And once you cross that
hurdle, you'll have a lot more options.
|
| janfields |
If you're a nonfiction
writer or picture book writer, you still don't need an
agent
|
| janfields |
but you may have to
sell your first book to a smaller publisher.
|
| janfields |
It may mean less money,
but often means more promotion and more attention.
|
| janfields |
Most agents take from
10 - 15% domestic -- usually 15%
|
| janfields |
Sometimes foreign
rights are sold at a different rate.
|
| janfields |
Okay, mirmar asked what
a testing company is...
|
| janfields |
One of the presents
from the world of standardized tests
|
| janfields |
and our "No CHILD LEFT
UNTESTED" system in the US
|
| janfields |
is that children take
lots and lots and lots of reading comprehension
|
| janfields |
tests
|
| janfields |
and these all need
passages to use for the test.
|
| janfields |
Usually they buy the
passages from magazines.
|
| janfields |
So if you sell a story
to Highlights, they may resell to a testing company
|
| janfields |
and send you
check.
|
| janfields |
They don't ASK if you
want the sale, they just make it and send you a check with what they
consider a fair cut for you.
|
| soradina |
How much as the No Child
Left Behind policy affected the
|
| soradina |
children's publishing
industry?
|
| janfields |
It has meant more
celebrity titles
|
| janfields |
It has meant more mass
market books
|
| janfields |
It has meant more
series books...and more high concept books.
|
| janfields |
It has meant more
licensed character books.
|
| janfields |
All of these kinds of
books sell well directly to the public
|
| janfields |
But they almost all
mean little to no money for writers like us...since many are written
by ghost writers for packagers.
|
| janfields |
It has meant fewer
nonfiction titles from educational publishers -- because of the
choking of the market.
|
| janfields |
It has meant fewer
"literary" titles since those were also bigger sellers to
schools/libraries than to kids themselves.
|
| janfields |
It has meant more
attention on "name and platform" for YA -- since teens really
respond to that.
|
| janfields |
But it hasn't killed
the business, just shifted it some.
|
| janfields |
It's been hard on
magazines -- especially literary magazines.
|
| janfields |
But part of that is
because publishers are so slow to change and adapt.
|
| janfields |
They don't know how to
market good books to readers, so they fall back on sure things and
bet heavily on them.
|
| janfields |
While smaller
publishers are now THE publishers of much of the less mass market,
more literary works.
|
| janfields |
Small publishers never
expected to get rich and they're chugging along much the same as
always.
|
| chitownlady |
How do you become a ghost
writer? ;-)
|
| janfields |
You send resumes and
samples to packagers.
|
| janfields |
I sent out a bunch last
year, and found the packagers with Google mostly...googling "book
packagers"
|
| janfields |
or...hmmm...there's
another term for it.
|
| janfields |
hmmmmm
|
| janfields |
drat, can't
remember.
|
| janfields |
If you google "book
packagers" you'll run across the other term though...they're
interchangeable.
|
| pjhausman |
What's "name and
platform"?
|
| janfields |
That just means a name
teens can recognize
|
| janfields |
Platform means a way to
reach the audience
|
| janfields |
Some YA writers do
video blogs on YouTube, for example
|
| janfields |
That would be a
platform, since teens hang on YouTube so much.
|
| coloradokate |
Do you have to be able to
write really fast to work for a book packager?
|
| janfields |
Yes, absoluately --
packagers tend to want a book immediately.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes they give you
the idea, sometimes even the outline.
|
| janfields |
And they want it in a
month, maybe two.
|
| janfields |
And that's a
novel.
|
| zebrakitchen |
"Where does Scholastic
Books come in, what do they buy?"
|
| janfields |
Scholastic buys all
sorts of things, and they use a lot of packagers
too.
|
| janfields |
That's why you see so
much series stuff and license stuff from them.
|
| janfields |
O
|
| janfields |
I'm pretty sure you
need an agent to deal with Scholastic.
|
| janfields |
They
actually...umm....aren't a place for a writer to get
rich.
|
| janfields |
They sell a lot of
books in cheap bindings at deep deep discounts
|
| janfields |
with next to NOTHING
for the writer, but you will get your name/book in front of more
kids.
|
| janfields |
So it can be good --
name/career wise -- but I've known writers who were shocked to find
out they made more with a dinky publisher
|
| janfields |
than when they went
with Schlastic for a book.
|
| janfields |
Big names don't
necessarily mean big money
|
| janfields |
or big
promo.
|
| george
kulz |
Are book packagers
looking for a certain type of background or experience in order to
consider someone to work for them?
|
| janfields |
Some are...some just
want someone with a specific voice.
|
| janfields |
They do like a certain
amount of experience because they're gambling on your liklihood of
being able
|
| janfields |
to produce good
material fast
|
| janfields |
and most folks who can
do that will have some publishing credits
|
| janfields |
but it might be all
magazines.
|
| janfields |
Packagers are FAR FAR
more impressed by magazine credits than most trade
publishers
|
| janfields |
because magazine
credits suggest you're a producer.
|
| janfields |
TO a packager, you're
like a cow -- give a lot of good milk fast or you're off on the
burger truck.
|
| janfields |
Okay, folks -- that
brings us to the end of the hour. Thanks for stopping by to play
"Stump the Jan" -- see you next week for our usually hang around
time.
|