| janfields |
July 27, NIGHT OPEN
FORUM begins in five minutes in the Auditorium. FORUM is open topic
with Jan Fields, webeditor of ICL. Pop in and ask your writing
questions in five minutes.
|
| janfields |
July 27, NIGHT OPEN
FORUM begins in 2 minutes. Join us in the Auditorium to ask
questions about writing.
|
| janfields |
If you want to ask a
question and be sure it has a chance to be posted, you'll need to
use either the "ask a question" button on the bar across the middle
of your screen. OR type /ask...then space once and type your
question. That passes the question to me and I can post it for
answer. If you type the question in the bar at the bottom of your
screen, I may not see it.
|
| janfields |
WELCOME to NIGHT OPEN
FORUM. I'm your host, moderator, and resident pontificator -- Jan
Fields. I'm looking forward to some good chat
tonight.
|
| janfields |
Hi, welcome to open
forum.
|
| janfields |
I hope more folks will
brave the summer heat to pop in.
|
| sue2 |
What personal pronoun
should one use when writing a non fiction article about an
animal?
|
| janfields |
This is a case where it
helps to know the usual style of the market that interests
you.
|
| janfields |
But if you have set the
sex of the animal...for example, you're talking about a mother
otter...
|
| janfields |
then it's okay to use
"she" for most of the markets.
|
| janfields |
Kid's magazines often
do.
|
| janfields |
And they often use the
generic "he" when the sex of the animal has not been
set.
|
| janfields |
But magazines for older
kids and more adult magazines or science-focused
magazines
|
| janfields |
will use "it" --even in
cases where the sex of the creature is very
specific.
|
| janfields |
So, like I said...it's
good to check a sample.
|
| janfields |
But it's not something
that will keep you out of publication.
|
| janfields |
Editors aren't that
anal if they like the rest of the article.
|
| ingrid
fitzpatrick |
Can anyone recommend a
good literary agent?
|
| janfields |
First, there is no
one-size-fits-all literary agents.
|
| janfields |
Someone that might work
for me
|
| janfields |
with the kind of work I
do
|
| janfields |
the writing voice I
have
|
| janfields |
and the way I like to
interact with an agent
|
| janfields |
might make someone else
totally crazy.
|
| janfields |
I had an agent for a
while.
|
| janfields |
He was a very "GOOD"
agent, in that he had sold quite a few books
|
| janfields |
he rep'ped some folks
who were well known.
|
| janfields |
He was a shark about
negotiation.
|
| janfields |
But he drove me
CRAZY>
|
| janfields |
he was not a good agent
for me.
|
| janfields |
When you're afraid to
answer your phone because you really don't want to talk to your
agent
|
| janfields |
cause he makes you want
to say bad words.
|
| janfields |
Then he's not a good
agent for you.
|
| janfields |
So...it's good to think
about what you want most in an agent.
|
| janfields |
And to think about what
you have to offer an agent.
|
| janfields |
Then, go check out the
agent section in the Children's Writers and Illustrators Market from
Writer's Digest books.
|
| janfields |
If you don't own it --
no worries, your library almost surely does.
|
| janfields |
They hold them in the
reference section.
|
| janfields |
And the agent part of
the book is only a few pages.
|
| janfields |
You could copy the
agents...then begin your research by doing online
searches
|
| janfields |
and seeing what you can
learn about each person.
|
| janfields |
Keep in mind that
agents specialize...so if the book says they only want Young Adult
stuff
|
| janfields |
Don't send them a
picture book.
|
| janfields |
They won't even bother
to send you a rejection letter most of the time.
|
| janfields |
They'll just mutter
darkly in their offices.
|
| cathie |
I came across the word
'memorist' today. Is that a new word? Does this person limit
themselves to their memories?
|
| janfields |
I am not sure unless
it's the new word for "memoir writer"
|
| janfields |
I think that the number
one type of nonfiction in terms of numbers
|
| janfields |
that passes the desks
of editors and agents are memoirs.
|
| janfields |
So...if that's the new
word...there are a lot of memorists out there.
|
| pjhausman |
Question re: the query
and the synopsis for book-length manuscripts: I've read your
articles on the ICL site and the stuff in BMfCW '07, but I'm still
not clear just what editors want when guidelines say "query" vs.
"query with synopsis" or "query with synopsis and __ sample
chapters." Is a query different when editors ask for "query" vs.
"query with synopsis"? Does the one-word instruction "query" mean
send only a query letter, or are we supposed to know to include
something else (sample pages or synopsis)?
|
| janfields |
Okay...first, not
everyone actually tells you what they want.
|
| janfields |
One agent, Barry
Goldblatt, actually, once told me that if an agent says
"query"
|
| janfields |
he automatically means
query with synopsis and sample
|
| janfields |
because you can't tell
jack from just a query.
|
| janfields |
But I have had other
agents say that if they wanted that other stuff, they would ask for
it.
|
| janfields |
If an agent wants a
query -- they want a letter with an intensely short mini synopsis of
the story
|
| janfields |
A synopsis that makes
the story sound exciting.
|
| janfields |
They can to see a clear
"hook" a reason readers will want to read the
story.
|
| janfields |
And they want the whole
letter to sound lively and interesting.
|
| janfields |
Professional but not
formal.
|
| janfields |
And never
academic.
|
| janfields |
If they ask for a query
with synopsis -- again, short letter with super short one-paragraph
book blurb type synopsis
|
| janfields |
Plus an extended one to
two page synopsis that gives a teensy bit more
detail.
|
| janfields |
And reveals all the
main characters.
|
| janfields |
And the action of the
story.
|
| janfields |
Agents and editors
stress that they want to see action.
|
| janfields |
They want to know
something is happening in your book.
|
| janfields |
Because young readers
and teens can only handle so much stagnant navel
gazing.
|
| janfields |
So make sure you keep
things moving.
|
| janfields |
When the agent asks for
query, synopsis, and sample -- that just means to add also some of
the actual manuscript pages.
|
| janfields |
This can range from ten
pages to thirty -- I have no often seen anyone ask for a longer
sample than that.
|
| janfields |
For me, if an editor
asks for a query only...I'll usually do just a query -- a long query
sometimes so I can cheat in a little more info...but really just the
letter.
|
| janfields |
Unless we're talking
about Barry
|
| janfields |
I'd send him the whole
load.
|
| janfields |
Just
cause.
|
| piperpan |
Any advice on breaking
into the NF market?
|
| janfields |
There are a couple keys
that can easy breaking into the NF market.
|
| janfields |
First is to know what
you could be an "expert" at.
|
| janfields |
For example, if you
have schooling in some area -- you're an expert
|
| janfields |
If you're a huge
history buff -- you're a kind of expert
|
| janfields |
If you love to
scrapbook -- you're a kind of crafts expert.
|
| janfields |
NF publishers like to
match your areas of interest with their needs.
|
| janfields |
They also want to see
strong samples.
|
| janfields |
So right now, you
should think about doing a nonfiction article for three different
age groups.
|
| janfields |
Something for very
young children.
|
| janfields |
Something for the
elementary school aged child who reads pretty well.
|
| janfields |
And something for teens
or preteens.
|
| janfields |
Don't worry about these
things getting published -- they are your samples.
|
| janfields |
Don't skimp on time
spent on them.
|
| janfields |
And include a
bibliography to show you know how to pick good
sources.
|
| janfields |
You might be inclined
to think -- ick -- but if you want a nonfiction book, you have to be
able to show you can write nonfiction for whatever age group the
publisher wants.
|
| janfields |
NF publishers are less
interested in your publishing credits than in your
ability.
|
| janfields |
If you wow them with
the samples, they won't care if you've never been
published.
|
| janfields |
They'll just figure you
work cheap and are skilled...they'll love you.
|
| janfields |
So...read intensely for
nonfiction for each age group...one at a time.
|
| janfields |
Really study how
nonfiction works for each one by reading published
examples.
|
| janfields |
Then create your own
very strong samples and you're in.
|
| gonewest |
I was asked to somehow
put in my N.F. article my own credent
|
| gonewest |
credentials as an expert
but I'm not sure how to do this
|
| janfields |
Okay, that tends to
mean slipping in your own experience.
|
| janfields |
For example, if I were
writing an article on ...hmmm...dealing with difficult
roosters.
|
| janfields |
I would start with an
anecdote of how I dealt with a difficult rooster.
|
| janfields |
That would demonstrate
my "experience"
|
| janfields |
If I were writing about
gene splicing to create glow in the dark mice,
|
| janfields |
I would mention my work
in gene splicing...if I had to be an expert.
|
| janfields |
Thank God, I do
not.
|
| janfields |
But they generally want
you to include your experience in some kind of anecdotal
way
|
| janfields |
if they ask for you to
include your expertness in the article.
|
| gonewest |
I'm writing about birds,
I'm a Certified Avian Specialist
|
| gonewest |
She wants me to say that
somehow in my article.
|
| janfields |
You would have to
insert something like
|
| janfields |
As a certified avian
specialist, I have often seen blah blah blah...
|
| janfields |
Again, putting yourself
in the article through some small sliver of your experience as the
expert.
|
| soradina |
We have a bird's nest
with a baby bird in our backyard.
|
| janfields |
Cool...we never get
cool stuff in the yard.
|
| soradina |
I've been observing the
birds and taking pictures.
|
| soradina |
I think it would make a
good article for younger kids.
|
| janfields |
It could, the problem
is that it's been done so much.
|
| janfields |
I know Highlights is
still being a little twitchy about birds
|
| janfields |
and they're normally a
great market for that sort of thing.
|
| janfields |
Maybe Nature
Friend...they salivate a bit when they see good
pictures.
|
| janfields |
I wouldn't shy away
from trying an article with it, especially if you get good
photos.
|
| janfields |
But know that if you
get a rejection, it's probably because of how many bird in nest
pieces they've seen more than it's any problem they have with your
writing.
|
| soradina |
thanks
Jan
|
| janfields |
I try
:-)
|
| janfields |
Uh..oh...only 9:30 and
out of questions.
|
| ccollier |
Highlights has my three
legged deer fic story for two months
|
| janfields |
Now there's a story I
bet they don't get every day.
|
| janfields |
They're probably just
trying to figure out if a three-legged deer suggests too much
violence to the reader.
|
| janfields |
I was reading about all
the things that have been tried to keep deer and cars from
colliding.
|
| janfields |
That would make a great
kid's story -- folks have tried some weird stuff.
|
| janfields |
One was a kind of
whistle that turned out to attract deer.
|
| janfields |
That would be
unfortunate.
|
| janfields |
Your car becomes a deer
magnet.
|
| ccollier |
If HIghlights doesnt want
it would Nature Friend Jan
|
| janfields |
I dunno. I would lean
toward trying Carus except Carus has turned into such a pain in
the...um...patience.
|
| gonewest |
Why do I think that
Nature Friend folded?
|
| janfields |
If they did, no one
told me. I know they changed hands.
|
| janfields |
They have a new
owner.
|
| janfields |
Now I feel all
paranoid.
|
| janfields |
I don't think they're
gone.
|
| jan_fields |
Being a mom of 6 and 26
years at it, I suddenly feel I need to bridge the gap of how they
think and look at things as opposed to mothering them for years. How
do I present myself to libraries or day care as a writer in
training?
|
| janfields |
Oh, that was a question
from zebrakitchen.
|
| janfields |
You can just contact
libraries and say you're learning to write for children and you'ld
like to volunteer to read stories to them.
|
| janfields |
Libraries will kiss
you.
|
| janfields |
They'll also make you
prove you weren't an ax murderer in a former life, but they'll be
happy to have you.
|
| janfields |
I would avoid day care
centers just because those places harbor more germs than a
biowarfare facility
|
| janfields |
You may never be well
again.
|
| janfields |
But you can also
volunteer at a school...again, you have to go through some checks,
but if you just want to do some reading aloud -- they're usually
open.
|
| janfields |
You do usually have to
go through some "checks" but if you're an ICL student and you can
show them your course work...they don't usually give you a lot of
grief.
|
| janfields |
It varies in differnet
locations.
|
| cathie |
in the mag mark. for
child. wrtrs - chirp/chicadee list guidelines but then website reads
'assignment' only. What steps lead to getting an
'assignment'?
|
| janfields |
First, be a
Canadian.
|
| janfields |
Then, get published in
a variety of magazines.
|
| janfields |
Then send your resume
and clips to Chirp or chickadee
|
| janfields |
They actually don't use
a lot of people beyond their staff
|
| janfields |
and sometimes the
magazine really shows that.
|
| janfields |
But um...where was
I...oh, they aren't easy to break into but if you're Canadian and if
you have other credits, you can send a resume and be
considered.
|
| janfields |
Oh...and a sample.
Always send a sample with a resume.
|
| coloradokate |
Is subscribing to
Publishers' Weekly for a month or two a good idea in order to learn
what agents are selling what kinds of kids' books?
|
| janfields |
Do you know how much
that thing costs?
|
| janfields |
Eek
|
| janfields |
I personally like
stealing them from the library.
|
| janfields |
No, actually, I never
steal..I'm a good girl.
|
| janfields |
But your library always
has that magazine -- always
|
| janfields |
And you can read it in
the library
|
| janfields |
And call it research --
make the hubby watch the kids.
|
| janfields |
It's
restful.
|
| janfields |
It's very worthwhile
actually...I had a friend who was rich and crazy enough to subscribe
to PW
|
| janfields |
She never read it, but
I did.
|
| janfields |
Now...I'm back to
lurking at the library.
|
| janfields |
In general, I don't pay
for anything I don't have to.
|
| janfields |
One of my writing
instructors in college said you can always tell the serious
writers
|
| janfields |
because they are
seriously cheap.
|
| janfields |
I just think we're
mostly seriously poor.
|
| janfields |
Writing is the mother
of devious invention because we all know we have things we need to
do
|
| janfields |
And things we need to
learn
|
| janfields |
And we try to do it as
cheaply as possible.
|
| janfields |
So, always...make time
to lurk at the library.
|
| ccollier |
Jan, Have you heard from
American Girl on your submission
|
| janfields |
Yes, I got
rejected...how lame is that?
|
| janfields |
And it was funny and
everything.
|
| janfields |
It even had a toy
chicken that pooped little pieces of candy.
|
| janfields |
I'll sell it to someone
else...nanny nanny boo boo to them.
|
| soradina |
sorry Jan They are a
tough market.
|
| janfields |
That's okay, I'll get
'em next time.
|
| janfields |
It's possible the humor
was just the eensiest bit low brow.
|
| janfields |
Actually, the reason it
was rejected -- and this time it's the real reason.
|
| janfields |
The story had boys in
it.
|
| janfields |
I knew American Girl
doesn't want romance
|
| janfields |
Or boy-girl
relationships.
|
| janfields |
But they don't even
want boys in the story -- at all
|
| janfields |
Unless they are
brothers.
|
| janfields |
And it doesn't work
without the boys so I'll have to find another
market.
|
| soradina |
Try Boy's Life
Jan.
|
| janfields |
Unfortunately, the main
characters are all girls.
|
| janfields |
Though...well...maybe
they could get a sex change.
|
| janfields |
I might try
it.
|
| janfields |
I'll try most anything
once.
|
| gonewest |
Are there markets out
there for older girls sewing crafts?
|
| janfields |
You'll have to jump up
to the "adult" craft magazines
|
| janfields |
Many of them are read
by teens who are serious about sewing.
|
| janfields |
The fabric crafts I see
in teen magazines rarely have any real sewing in
them.
|
| janfields |
I have seen some weird
uses of glue to avoid sewing.
|
| janfields |
But you could look into
the craft magazines from DRG publishing...they have a bunch of craft
magazines
|
| janfields |
And one of them might
work.
|
| coloradokate |
Seems like, for fiction,
Boy's Life reprints a lot of old stuff they have on hand by famous
writers, but not much new stuff. Is this my warped
imagination?
|
| janfields |
Boys Life does like
"name" fiction and if someone sold them something a long time
ago
|
| janfields |
and then got a
name
|
| janfields |
or if they can reprint
something from a name.
|
| janfields |
They're going to go
with it.
|
| janfields |
But most magazines
will.
|
| janfields |
It's just that Boys
Life has more access to name stuff.
|
| janfields |
But they have a big
fiction issue every year and put a lot of stuff in that
one.
|
| janfields |
And I've sen first
runs...so they're still viable.
|
| janfields |
I think it's hard for
them to get the kind of stuff they want.
|
| janfields |
They tend to want
action, adventure, humor, and darker stuff than they
get.
|
| janfields |
They get a lot of heavy
lesson submissions.
|
| janfields |
So they pull up the old
stuff that was sometimes less didactic.
|
| jitterbug |
Who do you plan on
sending it to next?
|
| janfields |
I'm vacilating...it
really is a funny story and part of me would like to expand it to a
middle grade novel.
|
| janfields |
But I might try the sex
change thing.
|
| janfields |
Cricket is the best
market right now...and I'm really tired of writing forever on them
for publication and then payment.
|
| janfields |
They take most of what
I send, but I could get old waiting for
publication.
|
| coloradokate |
Almost forgot to ask:
what's happening with Cicada? The Carus website has a mysterious
message about "changes."
|
| janfields |
Teen magazines are in
crisis...we lost Sweet 16
|
| janfields |
and Cicada has been
having some reader issues.
|
| janfields |
They kind of know what
the readers want
|
| janfields |
But they aren't getting
the subs to match that.
|
| janfields |
Readers want action and
humor and adventure
|
| janfields |
And writers send heavy
issues stories
|
| janfields |
with lots of
"learning"
|
| janfields |
So they've been running
a LOT...a huge lot of reprints.
|
| janfields |
And they don't want to
be a reprint magazine.
|
| janfields |
I suspect they're going
to do a reformat...change their image
|
| janfields |
to suggest they are
what readers want them to be.
|
| janfields |
And then hope they get
the stuff to fill it.
|
| ccollier |
Brio has put a freeze on
purchasing things for rest of year
|
| janfields |
They might just be
backlogged, but I think teen magazines are really facing a
crisis.
|
| janfields |
Publishers know teens
are reading.
|
| janfields |
But "what" they are
reading is in flux.
|
| janfields |
Teen books are doing
great.
|
| janfields |
But a lot of teens get
their short nonfiction off the web.
|
| janfields |
All the
celeb/fashion/beauty stuff is all available online for
free.
|
| janfields |
So, a lot of folks are
trying to find the "golden egg" -- the Harry Potter magical thing
that will turn a teen magazine into a really hot
commodity.
|
| soradina |
That's good because I
want to do a teen novel for the book
|
| soradina |
course.
|
| janfields |
Teen novels are still
doing really well.
|
| jan_fields |
zebrakitchen: What is the
cicada website you are talking about. I searched it and all I'm
getting is bugs.
|
| janfields |
Cicada is carus' teen
magazine -- it's basically on hiatus until they figure out what to
do with it.
|
| janfields |
So, I don't know if you
can find it on their site.
|
| phenixlily |
Jan, do you know if the I
can read and the Middle reader is
|
| phenixlily |
well ?
|
| janfields |
"I Can Read" books sell
really well.
|
| janfields |
But many of them are
actually instigated by the publisher.
|
| janfields |
So they can be a little
harder to market to a publisher.
|
| janfields |
Still, they can be
sold...I know folks who have done so.
|
| janfields |
Generally, publishers
are offering kind of low advances for them.
|
| janfields |
So it's hard to get an
agent to rep one.
|
| janfields |
So you have to do it on
your own.
|
| janfields |
As for middle grade --
they are doing fine. They aren't the super hot
|
| janfields |
but they really never
flag.
|
| janfields |
Middle grade novels are
the work horse of the industry.
|
| janfields |
There are tons of
them.
|
| janfields |
But they tend to stay
in print longer because they cost less to make than picture
books.
|
| janfields |
Or even chapter books
since the shorter chpater books are so illustration
intensive.
|
| janfields |
Okay, it's after ten
and my hubby is giving me the "look"
|
| janfields |
Not the really
interesting "look"
|
| janfields |
more the "I'm tired
now" look
|
| janfields |
But still...I want to
thank everyone for popping in.
|
| janfields |
I always enjoy seeing
ya.
|
| janfields |
I saw folks I've been
missing...y'all keep coming when you
can.
|