| janfields |
Afternoon Open Forum
with moderator Jan Fields begins in five minutes. This is open topic
so all writing related questions are welcome.
|
| janfields |
Afternoon Open Forum
with moderator Jan Fields begins in two minutes. This is open topic
so all writing related questions are welcome -
|
| janfields |
Welcome to Open Forum
Chat for January 23rd.
|
| janfields |
Before we jump
in
|
| janfields |
I want to warn
you
|
| janfields |
My wee girlie is home
today recouperating from the world's worst flu bug
|
| janfields |
So if I hear urping
sounds...I'll have to run.
|
| janfields |
You can ask questions
in several ways.
|
| janfields |
Using the "ask" button
on the bar in the middle of your screen.
|
| janfields |
Which, I think is an
issue with html chat
|
| janfields |
Or you can use the /ask
format
|
| janfields |
Or you can actually
type the question in that room and if I see it, I'll port it
over.
|
| janfields |
That third choice is
tricky cause it requires multitasking from me.
|
| janfields |
Not my
gift.
|
| janfields |
Oh...and thanks for the
condolences on the wee girlie's urpishness.
|
| janfields |
Flu bugs are getting
meaner.
|
| janfields |
Now...to jump in I'm
going to start by reminding everyone to be sure to come Thursday
night for Kelly's chat
|
| janfields |
She is just certain to
be here this time.
|
| janfields |
And it should be
great.
|
| janfields |
And I want to tell you
I have some great chats lined up for this year.
|
| janfields |
Including one with an
editor from a major book publishing house.
|
| janfields |
And I'm going to try to
get an editor from one of the smaller houses.
|
| janfields |
And a magazine
editor.
|
| janfields |
So we can hear about
writing from the dark side
|
| janfields |
I...um...mean the
editorial side :-O
|
| janfields |
Now..on to
questions.
|
| deje-who |
To me, writing is an
extension of who I am. How do you press past the fear and get on to
the creativity?
|
| janfields |
For me, one way with
all fiction or poetry
|
| janfields |
is to begin each piece
without any plans for sale
|
| janfields |
That doesn't mean I
don't sell stuff.
|
| janfields |
But my primary goal
with the writing is to enjoy it.
|
| janfields |
When I follow my joy,
the work comes out better without the pressure and fear of
rejection.
|
| janfields |
The second thing is to
come to the point where you accept that the piece you are writing is
going to be rejected.
|
| janfields |
If it's bad it'll be
rejected
|
| janfields |
If it's good it's still
got a good shot of being rejected.
|
| janfields |
There is so much
competition.
|
| janfields |
The key is not to worry
about it
|
| janfields |
And to keep sending it
out until it ISN'T rejected.
|
| janfields |
But it's actually very
freeing to write without thinking about selling.
|
| janfields |
Because it's that fear
of outside that tends to hinder us.
|
| janfields |
I also have something
of a fear of writing crap.
|
| janfields |
And I work around that
by giving myself permission to write two pages of total
crap
|
| janfields |
as long as the third
gets better.
|
| janfields |
By sorta ...trying to
write crap...I get it behind me and by the time I hit the "groove"
I'm flying
|
| janfields |
And I don't feel guilty
about the crappy parts because I was sorta trying to do it that
way.
|
| janfields |
Oh oh oh...good
news
|
| dell |
I'm happy to officially
announce my good news! I sold a picture book! The publisher is
Rising Moon, and the publication date is fall 2008. We're undecided
on the title, maybe Bedtime Giggle, maybe Huggle Wuggle, maybe
Bedtime Huggle Snuggle...not sure...but boy, am I thrilled!
:)
|
| janfields |
Yippee
Dell.
|
| janfields |
And...sounds like
you're doing fine with the titles.
|
| janfields |
I'll look forward to
reading it!!
|
| janfields |
Okay...another
question...and someone wants me to pontificate.
|
| janfields |
Bestill my beating
heart.
|
| coloradokate |
The new awards are
out--Newbery, Printz (sp?) and whatnot. Do you have any opinions
about them?
|
| janfields |
This year I haven't
read either the book that won the Newberry nor the one that picked
up the Printz.
|
| janfields |
I did love some of the
honor books.
|
| janfields |
Rules by Cindy
Lord
|
| janfields |
and An Abundance of
Katherines by John Green.
|
| janfields |
I honestly had not
heard of the book that won the Newbery
|
| janfields |
The Higher Power of
Lucky -- I believe is the title
|
| janfields |
I read a synopsis at
Amazon and thought it sounded intriguing
|
| janfields |
Without having read it,
it's tough to comment...have you read it Kate?
|
| janfields |
There are a couple
things I've noticed about award winners...overall, they don't seem
to be books I see kids reading until after they pick up the
award.
|
| janfields |
Though sometimes the
honor books are popular with kids
|
| janfields |
Often the quality of
the writing is lovely
|
| janfields |
They are often the most
literary books...with very pronounced style
|
| janfields |
And they aren't always
... happy books.
|
| janfields |
I find the award
exciting -- it sells a lot of books that might not sell well
otherwise.
|
| janfields |
And it often means
exposure to very literary books that might not be read by young
people otherwise.
|
| janfields |
Yes, esgrad, I've also
noticed the tend to go to character-driven books.
|
| janfields |
And strongly thematic
books.
|
| janfields |
Often theme is stronger
than plot.
|
| jan_fields |
esgrad" Why do you think
that is?
|
| janfields |
(Sorry, if I don't post
a question now and then, the transcript tends to
fail)
|
| janfields |
I think it's because
plot often makes such strong demands on a story
|
| janfields |
that we cannot indulge
in as much stylistic experiementation
|
| janfields |
as we can with a
character driven, theme focused book
|
| janfields |
Character gives you the
chance to get deep into voice
|
| janfields |
And theme often is the
source of a lot of lyricism and symbolism
|
| janfields |
And those things tend
to be associated (even historically) with
"Literature"
|
| janfields |
So, I'm not surprised
that the ALA leans that today character-driven/thematically focused
books.
|
| janfields |
Leans
toward
|
| janfields |
I have no idea how some
words come out of my fingers
|
| janfields |
I'm still hoping
someday to see a flatly hysterical book win the
Newbery
|
| janfields |
Okay...now someone has
to ask a question or I'm going to wax lyrical about all the joy I've
gotten in cleaning up URL for five days now.
|
| janfields |
not
url...urp
|
| janfields |
I haven't cleaned up
URL...but it has to be less messy
|
| caq |
Jan, in the book course,
how many extensions is a student allowed to ask for to finish a
lesson?
|
| janfields |
Extensions aren't a
matter of being allowed.
|
| janfields |
You can get as many as
you need.
|
| janfields |
Really...now a couple
things can happen
|
| janfields |
(1) you can really lose
your momentum.
|
| janfields |
Many times students who
get lots and lots of extensions don't finish the
course.
|
| janfields |
So they kinda nudge you
away from them...but you can have whatever you
need.
|
| janfields |
Another thing (2) is
that you can end up with a new instructor
|
| janfields |
Sometimes (not often)
you can get so many extensions that your instructor retires or
something
|
| janfields |
I've gotten a couple
transfers from that kind of thing.
|
| caq |
Is it unusual or mean
anyting in particular if someone needs more than 2? Lesson 3 is just
to difficult. I think they ask so much in that
lesson.
|
| janfields |
No, some folks are just
really thorough
|
| janfields |
And I've had a couple
students in the course I teach...who rushed something in a busy
life
|
| janfields |
and would have
benefitted from asking for an extension.
|
| janfields |
But if you end up with
like...a year between lessons...that's going to hurt your overall
progress
|
| janfields |
Because it'll kill the
building effect of the lesson
|
| janfields |
lessons
|
| janfields |
or at least cripple it
some.
|
| esgrad |
Ok, what is urp? Sorry,
I'm new here.
|
| janfields |
urp is what happens
when a wee girlie has stomach flu.
|
| janfields |
eewwww
|
| caq |
Ok, in a book, about how
much is considered appropriate for dialogue and how much for
"narrative" if that is what it is called. I am ok with dialogue, It
is between I have trouble with. I have heard many suggestions on
that.
|
| janfields |
A lot of it depends on
your voice.
|
| janfields |
I do a lot of
dialogue
|
| janfields |
The book I just
finished for the packager had a LOT of dialogue
|
| janfields |
But there are a few
things to watch for.
|
| janfields |
No talking
heads.
|
| janfields |
Every single scene
needs to give the reader lots of action.
|
| janfields |
In a
conversation...obviously they aren't doing jumping
jacks
|
| janfields |
So you'll need small
actions
|
| janfields |
That reveal things
about character
|
| janfields |
Narrative action can
"say" as much as dialogue.
|
| janfields |
Often I go on a rip and
do a huge dialogue scene
|
| janfields |
Then I go back and
block it...really imagine what each person is doing every
second
|
| janfields |
And I think...which
action is purposeful?
|
| janfields |
Which is
revealling?
|
| janfields |
Those I
use.
|
| janfields |
I also include enough
description to make the setting real.
|
| janfields |
I don't describe people
much (unless they look weird and it's important)
|
| janfields |
but I describe setting
enough to make the reader totally believe it
|
| janfields |
So, think of the things
about your dialogue as being ways to root it in the "real world" of
the story.
|
| janfields |
For me...that's
probably about 40% of the book.
|
| janfields |
In an action
adventure...it'll hit higher on narrative action
|
| janfields |
But you're not likely
to hit lower without problems.
|
| stretch |
Jan, If I write an
article for my assignment #10, when it's passed by my instructor,
will I be done? 10 A&B have me confused.
|
| janfields |
I believe so...I don't
teach that course, but unless your teacher asks for a rewrite -- I
think you're done.
|
| janfields |
If I'm wrong, I expect
one of our grads in the audience can correct me.
|
| caq |
what are talking
heads?
|
| janfields |
We're experiencing
"talking heads" right here
|
| janfields |
all we get are the
"words" of our conversation.
|
| janfields |
Anything you add to
show setting or character movement will move you beyond talking
heads.
|
| caq |
Is it necessary to give a
title to each chapter, or can you just end a chapter and start
another and not title the chapters?
|
| janfields |
I never title my
chapters.
|
| janfields |
The packager that I
just did a book for wanted chapter titles
|
| janfields |
So I had to go back and
write them after I finished the book.
|
| janfields |
It's a personal
decision though...and they can be fun.
|
| esgrad |
I took the ICL entrance
exam over ten years ago and was accepted and received a student id
number. Never enrolled in classes due to other coursework I was
taking elsewhere. But I'm at a point in my life where I'm starting
to consider ICL classes again. Do I need to retake the exam, or can
I enroll using my old student id?
|
| janfields |
No, you won't need to
retake the exam...just tell them what you said
here.
|
| coloradokate |
For lesson 10a, we're
supposed to research 3 possible publishers for our book. But many
MG/YA publishers now work only with agents. Are we supposed to
choose only those publishers we could actually query
ourselves?
|
| janfields |
Yeah, you should choose
publishers you can query yourself.
|
| janfields |
You might focus on the
smaller publishers, whenever possible...they are often the best way
in.
|
| janfields |
They get a lot of
submissions
|
| janfields |
but not like the big
houses.
|
| janfields |
A difference between
hundreds a month and thousands.
|
| caq |
To describe the setting,
do you do that in paragraphs on their own as the characters are in
those settings? For instance, a woods that the characters visit,
would you describe them ina pragraph or how would you do
it.
|
| janfields |
I usually do a short
couple lines as we switch to a new setting...trying to convey sound,
scent, things beyond sight.
|
| janfields |
After that, I'll mix
some setting into the dialogue and action.
|
| janfields |
For example, I might
write...
|
| janfields |
Joey pulled a twig off
the tree above their heads and absently stripped it leaves as he
talked. "You know we can't stay here."
|
| janfields |
That's messy and I'd
clean it up, but you get the idea.
|
| janfields |
Tearing up a twig both
shows setting and character
|
| janfields |
since it shows he needs
something to do with his hands.
|
| janfields |
A distraction...maybe
nerves.
|
| janfields |
Ahhh...I knew we'd get
more from course grads.
|
| caq |
The story/article is the
end. YOu will get the lesson back from your instructor and he/she
will let ICL know if he/she recommends you to continue and you will
get your diploma a little while later.
|
| janfields |
And thanks also to the
grad who answered in the other room too...I can always count on
y'all.
|
| caq |
Do you outline your
chapters or just jump in. That is where I am having the problem in
Lesson 3 of the book course, I have to detail oulilne Chapts 2 and 3
and rough out the rest after writing Chapter 1. It is hard to not
write it out.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes I
outline...sometimes I jump in.
|
| janfields |
Mostly I
outline
|
| janfields |
But for me, an outline
is just a paragraph hitting the things I want to "do" in the
chapter
|
| janfields |
For example, one of the
"outlines" for the book I just finished said something like
this:
|
| janfields |
Chapter Seven -- the
girls start down the river with Stripe. He is filled with scary
monster stories. Marisol seems distracted. Chapter ends with the
monsters overturning the boat.
|
| janfields |
Now this chapter had a
ton of dialogue
|
| janfields |
That showed how much of
a braggart Stripe was, but also how much he wanted to connect with
the girls.
|
| janfields |
It also showed the
character change in Marisol that was important to coming
action.
|
| janfields |
And it showed how
frayed the nerves of all the girls were getting.
|
| janfields |
I didn't put any of
that in the "outline" since I just noted the overall
action
|
| janfields |
so that I could ensure
that I had enough movement and excitement.
|
| janfields |
My outlines focus on
action and setting because my gift is dialogue --I don't need to
watch to make sure that part is working.
|
| caq |
OH, so I can write a few
sentences about the main points of each para and that would
constitute outlining the chapts? I could put inthe dialogue that has
come to mind, so i don't forget and a little roughing of other
stuff? That really helps too.
|
| janfields |
Yeah, really, don't let
outlines cripple you
|
| janfields |
They are a kind of tool
for making sure the overall pace and arc is going to
work
|
| janfields |
Most of the stuff is
still going to have to come as it comes.
|
| bethie2 |
Do you note the theme
your mss fits in your cover letter?
|
| janfields |
Yeah, you really really
really need to list the theme you're targetting.
|
| janfields |
It will make a huge
difference in how an editor perceives your
manuscript.
|
| janfields |
By listing the theme
you're showing you took time to (1) find out the
themes
|
| janfields |
and (2) send them
something appropriate
|
| janfields |
That actually puts you
ahead of like 90% of submissions.
|
| coloradokate |
Please pontificate on
subplots for MG... Yes? No? How many? Internal conflict? External?
Okay, I'll stop now.
|
| janfields |
A middle grade novel
will need some subplots...I think of them as
co-plots.
|
| janfields |
Now, the thing I just
wrote was a cast piece
|
| janfields |
So I had to keep five
characters going in the story and make all of them
difference
|
| janfields |
and make them all
matter
|
| janfields |
So obviously there are
going to be lots of co-plots
|
| janfields |
the relationship
between the twin sisters
|
| janfields |
the way the timid girl
reacts to the adventure and how she responds when her friends depend
on her
|
| janfields |
The reaction of one
girl to getting what she wants most in life
|
| janfields |
The discovery of the
"jock" that sometimes the weakest link can save the
day.
|
| janfields |
Lots of tiny bits...but
the main plot was the adventure that ran from beginning to
end.
|
| janfields |
In another book I
wrote, a young middle grade -- the main plot involved how much of a
mess you can get into when you try to control other
people
|
| janfields |
but the subplots
involved things like bullying
|
| janfields |
and parent/child
relationships
|
| janfields |
They actually all
worked together to reach the story end.
|
| janfields |
And grew naturally out
of putting those characters in that situation.
|
| janfields |
If those kinds of
things don't seem to grow naturally...you may need to get to know
your characters more deeply
|
| janfields |
or make them more
flawed.
|
| ccollier |
Jan, I sold a story to
Jakes, a new magazine market i
|
| ccollier |
it will be a four pages
with illustrations in Summer 2008
|
| janfields |
Hey!
Congratulations...and very cool
|
| janfields |
I don't know that
magazine
|
| janfields |
Is it for
kids?
|
| janfields |
Oh...wow, I have to go
find my market book.
|
| janfields |
Wow...very cool...super
congratz.
|
| caq |
So, when planning a book,
you would have your main theme and problem and then you have your
little subplots, would they be like things that would be worked on
and solved in a chapt or two as the characters are living your
"adventure" you are creating?
|
| janfields |
Sometimes subplots just
happen...they spring up when you're writing and the characters act
in certain ways because your subconscious knows these
people.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes I have to
stop and say...hey, why are you doing that.
|
| janfields |
And I can go back and
try to smooth it back down...or ponder it and see if it's a
subplot.
|
| janfields |
If it is...then
sometimes I have to go backwards and get it going earlier in order
for the whole of the book to work smoothly.
|
| janfields |
I had to make some
changes in the outline that had been approved for the packaged book
I just finished because the subplot about the timid girl was so
compelling
|
| janfields |
I just had to do
something with it.
|
| janfields |
Her subplot wasn't
resolved until near the end
|
| janfields |
But it wasn't dealt
with in EVERY chapter
|
| janfields |
It was just something
to keep in mind as things we unfolding
|
| janfields |
And watch places where
I could very naturally let the subplot slip in
|
| bethie2 |
Would you talk a little
about selling second rights?
|
| janfields |
As long as you sold
only First American Serial Rights or any form of First rights with
NO ongoing rights
|
| janfields |
You simply submit the
piece to markets that take reprints.
|
| janfields |
I don't sell second
rights much because I don't bother.
|
| janfields |
Unless someone comes
along and wants to buy them.
|
| janfields |
If you sold First
Rights and nonexclusive reprint rights
|
| janfields |
Its a little harder to
sell second rights
|
| janfields |
Because the reprint
markets want to know aobut the "nonexclusive reprint rights"
thing
|
| janfields |
and they may decide
that's too much competition since technically they could publish the
piece at the same time someone else is publishing
it.
|
| janfields |
Which is very icky for
publishers.
|
| janfields |
Now, here's a
prediction.
|
| janfields |
We are soon going to
see...in all paying markets and many nonpaying
|
| janfields |
a turn to
EITHER
|
| janfields |
all
rights
|
| janfields |
or nonexclusive reprint
right
|
| janfields |
for all
markets
|
| janfields |
This is because it
saves the magazines piles of bucks and they can sell the article to
testing companies
|
| janfields |
and (technically) not
pay you
|
| janfields |
Many do pay you...many
just keep the money.
|
| janfields |
Virtually all only pay
you a portion.
|
| janfields |
Magazines are suffering
BADLY right now...and whatever they can do to save money, they will
do.
|
| janfields |
And that kind of
thinking can pinch writers.
|
| janfields |
So, I don't know how
much longer second rights are going to be something any of us worry
about.
|
| ccollier |
also Mary Dohack at
Relate asked to see two quizes
|
| janfields |
Another congrats -- and
Mary is such a sweetie.
|
| eggamy |
Have written for themed
MGs such as Cobblestone?
|
| janfields |
I've written for themed
magazines -- but not in the Cobblestone group.
|
| janfields |
Honestly (don't tell
anyone) the idea of writing historical sorts of things intimidates
me.
|
| coloradokate |
So you might not stick
with your outline, if the characters send you
elsewhere?
|
| janfields |
Right...outlines are
guidelines.
|
| janfields |
And they are very
helpful if your book wanders and you don't like where it ends
up
|
| janfields |
They help you remember
where you intended to go.
|
| janfields |
But outlines are to
help you...don't let them straightjacker your
imagination.
|
| caq |
I am really enjoying
trying to write this book for the book course, but feel so rushed to
get it done within the time frame, doesn't it take a professional
writer longer than the book course gives you to do what they ask for
in the time frame they request it?
|
| janfields |
I had to turn in an
outline for the packager in two weeks.
|
| janfields |
I don't know how long
the book course asks.
|
| janfields |
I have known packagers
to want an outline by the end of the week...
|
| janfields |
when asking on
WEDNESDAY
|
| janfields |
Packagers will ask you
to bleed for money
|
| janfields |
So, it's not a bad
thing to be able to do stuff fast.
|
| janfields |
You'll always find
writing jobs if you can do things fast
|
| janfields |
but NO...regular
publishers tend to move like glacial ice
|
| janfields |
So they give you lots
of time to do everything.
|
| janfields |
Usually
|
| janfields |
Though even then...it
can feel too fast.
|
| esgrad |
I'm working on an
educational picture book series. I've developed two background
stories for the series, but they do not have the same educational
theme that the other books in the series have. My question is, what
is the best way to try to sell this series to a publisher? Do I 1)
query with manuscript for the first book in the series that has the
educational theme I want to carry throughout the series, and save
the two "background" manuscripts until they show interest in the
series, or 2) send one/both "background" manuscripts with the other
manuscript and query, or 3) simply send a query, explaning that I
can provide 3 manuscripts &/or series proposal, and let them
decide which materials they want?
|
| janfields |
Even with educational
publishers -- it's better to offer one book...the strongest, then
mention you have a series in mind.
|
| janfields |
If you say...I have a
bunch of manuscripts for this series done
|
| janfields |
That can be a problem
if the publisher wants a lot of change.
|
| janfields |
They may think...oh,
she's so not going to want to commit to this much change if she's
already done a bunch of these books.
|
| janfields |
So, I would send
one...maybe talk about the other you "have in mind" but focus
heavily on the best one that you are sending.
|
| caq |
If you resold a book
because you held onto your second rights, is it understood by the
second publisher you still have rights to sell again to another
publisher or will they expect that they are purchasing your final
right to sell it elsewhere.
|
| janfields |
Second rights don't
really come into play with publishers.
|
| janfields |
book
publishers
|
| janfields |
They normally have the
right to publish until the book goes "out of print"
|
| janfields |
Then, hopefully, you
have a revision clause in your contract.
|
| janfields |
When the book goes OOP
with the first publisher...you can shop for another
|
| janfields |
But it's not
easy...sometimes publishers assume the book has sold as many as it's
going to
|
| janfields |
But I have heard of
writers who had success with selling books one the rights
reverted.
|
| janfields |
Okay, it's after
3pm...so I should go tend my jr sickie.
|
| janfields |
Thanks for coming to
see me today...I'm sorry I didn't quite get all the
questions.
|
| janfields |
I hope to see y'all
Thursday night with Kelly...she should be a
joy.
|