| eggamy |
Jan Do you know next
week's schedule
|
| janfields |
November 17, OPEN FORUM
CHAT begins in five minutes in the Auditorium. This is an open topic
chat, so any question related to writing is fair game. Webeditor Jan
Fields will be playing "stump the Jan" in five
minutes.
|
| janfields |
November 17, OPEN FORUM
CHAT begins in 2 minutes. Join us while talk about the trials,
tribulations and challenges of the writing life -- and maybe a
chuckle or two!
|
| janfields |
Welcome to OPEN FORUM
CHAT with webeditor Jan Fields. Pull up a chair as we talk about
writing.
|
| janfields |
If you want to ask a
question and be sure it has a chance to be posted, you'll need to
use either the "ask a question" button on the bar across the middle
of your screen. OR type /ask...then space once and type your
question. That passes the question to me and I can post it for
answer. If you type the question in the bar at the bottom of you
screen, I may not see it.
|
| janfields |
Of course, all of y'all
know that.
|
| janfields |
I'm glad to see
everyone who made it out tonight.
|
| janfields |
Now that fall it here
and it gets dark in midafternoon...I feel all in so early
anymore.
|
| janfields |
So it's nice to get
together with writerfolk.
|
| janfields |
Tonight I'm typing at
you from box central.
|
| janfields |
Since we're making a
move tomorrow.
|
| janfields |
Okay, I gots questions
so let's jump in.
|
| rainchain |
I read in one of the talk
abouts not to mention you took a
|
| rainchain |
course on your cover
letters but i always put I am an ICL
|
| rainchain |
student is that a bad
thing to put?
|
| janfields |
It doesn't really do
you any harm to say you take writing classes.
|
| janfields |
But it doesn't do you
any great good either.
|
| janfields |
Because editors are
more interested in the manuscript at offer than in things like
writing classes or writing conferences or other things you've done
to build your skills and your knowledge.
|
| janfields |
So, when folks put in
things editors consider "extraneous" like
|
| janfields |
courses
|
| janfields |
conferences they've
attended
|
| janfields |
hobbies
|
| janfields |
Editors tend to think,
"wow, why is she looking for things to say?"
|
| janfields |
On the other
hand...
|
| janfields |
a course or a
conference can be vitally important to mention if
you...
|
| janfields |
met the editor at the
conference
|
| janfields |
or had the editor as an
instructor
|
| janfields |
In other words, if it's
a point of contact.
|
| janfields |
Otherwise...like I
said, it doesn't really hurt you except that it's kind of "off
topic" to the editor.
|
| coloradokate |
How does ICL assign
student numbers? I have friends whose numbers start WJ or ZZ, AGR,
ADH, ABR... and I know there must be a system, but I can't figure it
out and it's making me crazy! Okay, crazier, but
still...
|
| janfields |
I have no
idea.
|
| janfields |
I have a lot of
students.
|
| janfields |
And if there is a
pattern to how they are assigned numbers.
|
| janfields |
I totally don't
recognize it.
|
| janfields |
But since it's
something you're wondering about...hey, I'll ask.
|
| janfields |
Might be
interesting.
|
| janfields |
You're
welcome.
|
| janfields |
I've kinda wondered
once or twice myself.
|
| janfields |
Wee Willie Winkie: What
is the youngest and oldest a main character can be in a YA novel,
especially if looking at books series where she would be aging as
books went? I think of Anne of Green Gable and those types where the
characters even married and had a family.
|
|
|
| janfields |
There is no absolute
rule about this, by the way...
|
| janfields |
but most YA has
characters from 13 to 16.
|
| janfields |
Under 13 and some folks
will tell you it's middle grade.
|
| janfields |
Over 16 and some folks
will tell you it's more appealing to adults.
|
| janfields |
But I've seen YA with
VERY young protagonists when the material is edgy or deals with
tough situations or violence or sex or drugs...well, you get
it.
|
| janfields |
And I've seen YA with
main characters in college.
|
| janfields |
Now, in a series, you
certainly can have characters age.
|
| janfields |
Rowling is doing it
right now.
|
| janfields |
Eventually, your
readership is going to age too.
|
| janfields |
And editor will stick
with you through the aging process for as long as the readers
do.
|
| janfields |
But I suspect, once
they become adults...it's going to be a bit harder
sell.
|
| janfields |
I have however read
many middle grade and YA books were the characters start out in
their preteens and end up as adults.
|
| janfields |
It's not that
unusual.
|
| janfields |
Even
today.
|
| stretch |
What move is happening
tomorrow?
|
| janfields |
I'm moving to a new
house...nothing to do with ICL.
|
| janfields |
Just
me.
|
| janfields |
well and my
family.
|
| dona |
What do we put in that's
not "extra"?
|
| janfields |
You can put in anything
related to the specific manuscript at hand.
|
| janfields |
For example, if I am
sending in a fantasy story...I might mention that I won some obscure
fantasy contest.
|
| janfields |
Or I might say, 'having
been a huge fan of fantasy for years"
|
| janfields |
Or I might send a
fantasy short story and mention my fantasy novel under
contract
|
| janfields |
Or I might even quote
some famous fantasy author on the topic (I can reach pretty hard for
relevent extras sometimes)
|
| janfields |
If I'm sending my first
ever fantasy story to Cricket and I've never sold fantasy before but
I have sold to Cricket...
|
| janfields |
I'll mention that I've
sold to Cricket before.
|
| janfields |
They like to buy from
repeat writers.
|
| janfields |
If I've seen the editor
at a conference (even if I didn't meet her) I'll mention the
conference and quote something she said.
|
| janfields |
Sure, it's a little
like sucking up, but editors like knowing they're making an
impression.
|
| janfields |
So, anything "extra" I
add is going to relate to either
|
| janfields |
(1) that specific
manuscript
|
| janfields |
or (2) that specfic
editor or publication.
|
| janfields |
Otherwise, I don't put
stuff in...for example, I once won an award for an adult nonfiction
piece.
|
| janfields |
But I would mention
that ONLY if I were trying to sell adult
nonfiction.
|
| janfields |
It wouldn't be terribly
relevant otherwise.
|
| janfields |
Also, I have a
Journalism degree from a fairly prestigious
program...
|
| janfields |
but I would mention
that ONLY if I were sending something journalistic
|
| janfields |
Or I happened to know I
went to the same school as the editor
|
| janfields |
I hope that
helps.
|
| stretch |
but editors also need to
knows why you're writing a particular subject, what your credentials
are, how come you can write about a subject...doesn't including that
you are ICL stucent qualify for any bit of perk in editor's
eyes?
|
| janfields |
Not really...it does
show you're working to improve your craft -- which is
good.
|
| janfields |
But if your craft is
solid enough to produce a good piece for the editor, then that's
what they want to see.
|
| janfields |
It's all about the
manuscript.
|
| janfields |
And there are all sorts
of ICL students.
|
| janfields |
Say you focused on
fiction in the course.
|
| janfields |
And you totally didn't
try any nonfiction.
|
| janfields |
Or you wrote for little
kids and now you're sending out YA.
|
| janfields |
ICL students get a
taste of lots of stuff, but you might be trying something totally
outside where your main focus was in the course.
|
| janfields |
So having had the
course, doesn't automatically mean you're going to be sending good
stuff for this editor at this time.
|
| janfields |
And they know
it.
|
| janfields |
Children's lit is a
huge, huge field...
|
| charweb |
How does ICL determine
the students who are eligible....
|
| charweb |
for the course? I mean
what's the criteria?
|
| janfields |
You need to be able to
handle the language well -- communicate clearly.
|
| janfields |
So they judge on
written communication skills.
|
| janfields |
You need to demonstrate
imagination and a willingness to pursue an idea (which is shown in
the fairly long written thing)
|
| janfields |
You have to show some
connection to your "inner child" through the one
section.
|
| janfields |
Different parts of the
test are weighted differently.
|
| janfields |
If you and your inner
child are doing great but you can't write readable
English..obviously you've got a problem we can't
solve.
|
| janfields |
So, what the test looks
at is a certain level of skill
|
| janfields |
plus clear
potential.
|
| coloradokate |
Piggybacking on
Rainchain's question: does it help to put that one is an SCBWI
member in cover letters or on envelopes?
|
| janfields |
It probably doesn't
help as much these days as it used to.
|
| janfields |
Because SCBWI doesn't
advertise outside the writing community
|
| janfields |
a membership meant you
clearly as "in the community" in some way.
|
| janfields |
But with the advent of
the Internet, that's not quite so much the case.
|
| janfields |
Since a lot of editors
are SCBWI members, it can be a kind of "recognition
point"
|
| janfields |
But it doesn't really
have the oomph that it once did.
|
| janfields |
I've heard editors and
agents say it doesn't really move them much.
|
| janfields |
There was a time when a
lot of closed houses were open to SCBWI members, but that's not the
case so much anymore...
|
| janfields |
though going to SCBWI
conferences will give you that chance to brown-nose...um...I mean
mention having seen the editor, which actually counts for a lot
more.
|
| rainchain |
If you want to submit a
holiday activity how far in advance
|
| rainchain |
is
normal?
|
| janfields |
Six months for most
magazines.
|
| janfields |
But I know some who
work a year ahead.
|
| janfields |
So it helps to read
their guidelines if possible to find out what their lead times
are.
|
| janfields |
Also, some small
magazines work on shorter leads.
|
| janfields |
So...it varies but the
most common is probably 6 months...though 12 months is almost a sure
thing for craft magazines.
|
| charweb |
I wanted to write on
certain subjects because I like that ..
|
| charweb |
show the usage of the
words alonwith meanings?
|
| charweb |
topic or subject. But
I've no expertise in that subject ....
|
| charweb |
I'm related to that. Can
I still write on that?
|
| janfields |
Sorry, char...scrambled
your question.
|
| janfields |
Let me do the 'certain
topics' question.
|
| janfields |
I write on topics often
about which I have no specific expertise...
|
| janfields |
this is because I'm
flighty and not really an expert in much...
|
| janfields |
but I have a boundless
curiosity and I love to research.
|
| janfields |
That's really
key.
|
| janfields |
If you have the ability
to dig in and spend real time researching
|
| janfields |
With multiple
sources
|
| janfields |
and experts if
possible...then you can write on anything.
|
| janfields |
I've written on legal
matters -- though I am far from a legal expert.
|
| janfields |
I've written about
parenting YEARS before I became a parent.
|
| janfields |
I've written on science
topics...though I'm no scientist.
|
| janfields |
But I like to
research.
|
| janfields |
And good research is
something editors value very much.
|
| charweb |
Jan, can you suggest me
some good dictionary which can also.
|
| janfields |
This is the question
about a good dictionary that also offers usage
info.
|
| janfields |
Actually...no, I'm
sorry.
|
| janfields |
I used to collect
"Style guides" which have lots of stuff about usage in
them.
|
| janfields |
Because I'm a word
geek.
|
| janfields |
But I'm really not that
into dictionaries.
|
| janfields |
I would spend some
quality time at the bookstore and just read the dictionaries...see
what looks good.
|
| janfields |
Style guides are books
that tell you specifically about how to do "writing
stuff"
|
| janfields |
Things like when to
capitalize president
|
| janfields |
and all the correct
titles for members of the government
|
| janfields |
And the difference
between when to use numerals and when to spell out
numbers.
|
| janfields |
Yes, chicago is
one.
|
| janfields |
It's a professional
one
|
| janfields |
There are also style
guides that are meant to be "fun" and are written for geeks like
me.
|
| janfields |
But all of them are
about how to use the lanuage according to SOMEONE's version of what
is "correct."
|
| charweb |
Is it possible to know
what I've scored in my aptitude test?
|
| janfields |
I really don't know...I
know instructors don' t have that information.
|
| janfields |
Though we do get a copy
of your apptitude test many times
|
| janfields |
but it doesn't have a
'score" on it.
|
| janfields |
Student services might
know.
|
| janfields |
You could always call
and ask.
|
| stretch |
I thought the ICL
aptitude test was the funnest test I ever took! I was glad to be
accepted, and wondered how fun writing would be for me...after being
a chemist all my life. Writing is my second childhood. Glad to be
aboard your ship.
|
| janfields |
And I'm glad to have
you!
|
| stretch |
How does one know if a
house is "closed?" What options does a writer have when not opening
up these closed doors?
|
| janfields |
A 'closed' house is one
where the guidelines say "not accepting unsolicited
material'
|
| janfields |
They may also be listed
in market guides with the same notation.
|
| janfields |
To get into a "closed
house" you need either (1) an agent
|
| janfields |
or (2) a connection
with an editor in the house -- usually if you've attentded a
workshop at a conference with that editor, you can submit even if
the house is closed.
|
| janfields |
Many of the closed
houses are not the best place to break in anyway.
|
| janfields |
They can have promotion
departments geared toward the "experienced" writer.
|
| janfields |
And the editors may not
be as "hands on" as you might like.
|
| janfields |
Often, there are good
reasons why a closed house is not your best place.
|
| stretch |
geesh, you ARE a word
geek! That sounds cool to me now...
|
| janfields |
I've always been a word
geek...I was a kid who thought a Thesaurus was actualy a good
Christmas gift.
|
| janfields |
Words just fascinate
me...they are so varied.
|
| stretch |
I took the Long Ridge
Aptitude test to see if they would offer me acceptance. I was
pleased that they did, but why would I take that course? It's longer
and more expensive.
|
| janfields |
If your focus is
writing for adults
|
| janfields |
Long Ridge can be a
good place to learn about it
|
| janfields |
because many of the ICL
instructors are simply not as versed in the adult
markets.
|
| janfields |
I don't know much about
adult fiction, for example, though I've written for a number of
adult nonfiction markets.
|
| janfields |
So...it's really a
matter of where you want to publish and what you want to
write.
|
| janfields |
If you want to write
primarily for kids, with a little adult nonfiction maybe...ICL will
meet your needs great.
|
| janfields |
But if you want to
write a mystery novel for adults (for example), you're going to be
better served by the new novel course at Long
Ridge.
|
| coloradokate |
For an ICL assignment, do
you think I could get away with sending in two versions (1st person
and 3rd person POVs) of a very short story (say, 700 words)? I'd
love to get my instructor's opinion on which way worked
better.
|
| janfields |
I have students send
two versions sometimes.
|
| janfields |
And I tend to do both
because...well...I really stink at saying no.
|
| janfields |
But you have to
understand that your instructor is only going to get paid for doing
one of them.
|
| janfields |
So, you're asking for a
big favor.
|
| janfields |
I think you might be
okay if you sent both but included a note asking her to only
critique the version she felt worked best.
|
| janfields |
Then she would read
both (which doesn't take long with a short word count like
that)
|
| janfields |
but the long part --
the critique would still be within her pay limits.
|
| janfields |
I hate to talk about
pay and stuff.
|
| janfields |
And sometimes students
email me extra stuff because my email is so "out
there"
|
| janfields |
And I really don't
mind...but they need to know that I don' t get paid for stuff like
that.
|
| janfields |
And some really busy
instructors probably couldn't do it.
|
| dona |
Teen language is
different across the country- How to choose
|
| janfields |
When I do a teen story,
I stay close to my own teen roots
|
| janfields |
simply because that's
easiest for me.
|
| janfields |
So most of my YA is set
in the South or Midwest (which has a similar kind of
sound).
|
| janfields |
Since I avoid trendy
slang...I can use most of the basic structure and pacing that grows
out of my inner teen.
|
| janfields |
And when I want to
introduce a stray character...I research the voice
|
| janfields |
Usually by reading
books with that setting.
|
| janfields |
Since tv tends to be a
wretched place to hear real teen voices.
|
| rainchain |
Highlights Bear with us
cards mean? Its being reviewed by
|
| rainchain |
a group of editors
besides the original one?
|
| janfields |
The Highlights cards
basically mean...
|
| janfields |
(1) we got your
manuscript.
|
| janfields |
(2) Someone skimmed it
and it's clear you know how to write.
|
| janfields |
(3) It doesn't have
anything that horrified us like siblings name calling or
such.
|
| janfields |
(4) So it's in the pile
of "possibles" which is taller than you would believe and we'll read
it and get back to you as soon as possible.
|
| janfields |
It's actually only
going to be read by the editor assigned to that "kind" of story, but
they get such a huge mound of submissions.
|
| janfields |
So the "bear with us"
cards mean it passed the screener who kicks out all the 'easy to
reject" pieces and sends them on to the right editor...where the
wait in a pile until the editor can read it.
|
| cathie |
i have a ICL question,
too. How do they match the instructor to the student or is it a pull
from a hat?
|
| janfields |
It's
complicated...
|
| janfields |
it has to do with
student loads...
|
| janfields |
and it has to do with
what the instructors have asked to handle...
|
| janfields |
or what the instructors
handle really well.
|
| janfields |
For example, some
instructors might be unusually good with ESL students (and we do
have some...some of my ESL students have been amazing writers,
though challenged by the language).
|
| janfields |
Some instructors might
be unusually good with dealing with folks in certain
situations.
|
| janfields |
So there is some
matching...but often it's matching based not on genre (history
lovers vs. picture book lovers, for example) as based on the
circumstances you come in facing.
|
| janfields |
And sometimes, you
might just get the instructor who is saying...puh-leese give me more
students...I love students.
|
| stretch |
Thanks, Jan. I stumbled
onto ICL first, so it was my first attempt. I don't kow why I'd need
to take a new course for writing for adults. Different genre, same
pattern, right?
|
| janfields |
Writing for adults
really is quite different but if you remain a huge reader in the
areas you want to write...
|
| janfields |
that should teach you a
lot.
|
| janfields |
I still believe reading
is the best way to learn writing...
|
| janfields |
to learn genre
conventions...
|
| janfields |
and to learn the nature
of what the market is producing.
|
| stretch |
Good luck moving
tomorrow. I need to move, too, but not until the first of the year.
I'm trying to decide whether to take a leave of absence from IC:L.
I'll be on assignment #10, and don't know when I'll have my new
address.
|
| janfields |
Well, ICL will always
be flexible to whatever you need.
|
| janfields |
Just don't go
disappearing on us.
|
| janfields |
We'd miss
you.
|
| janfields |
Okay...that brings me
to the end of the questions and the hour.
|
| janfields |
Thanks so much for
popping in.
|
| janfields |
I'll be chatting THIS
TUESDAY in the aftenoon -- 2 pm eastern
|
| janfields |
An open
forum.
|