| janfields |
October 17, AFTERNOON
OPEN FORUM with web editor Jan Fields begins in five minutes. We're
open to any writing questions that are on your mind today. Chat
begins in the Auditorium in five minutes.
|
| janfields |
October 17, AFTERNOON
OPEN FORUM with Web Editor, Jan Fields, begins in 2 minutes. Join us
while we natter about writing concerns.
|
| janfields |
Welcome to AFTERNOON
OPEN FORUM with web editor, Jan Fields! Pull up a chair as we talk
about that mysterious and ever changing world called
writing.
|
| janfields |
Hi
writerfolk
|
| janfields |
I wanted to start off
today by sharing a secret
|
| janfields |
that I was recently
reminded of
|
| janfields |
I just got a mystery
envelope in the mail...
|
| janfields |
it contained a
manuscript...
|
| janfields |
but no rejection
letter...
|
| janfields |
no letter of any sort,
not even my cover letter.
|
| janfields |
It had no return
address since it was my SASE
|
| janfields |
It had my picture book
manuscript, but who sent it?
|
| janfields |
Actually...this is like
the 10th time this has happened in my career
|
| janfields |
So...you need to be
aware that some book publishers will do this to
you.
|
| janfields |
They will just send
back the manuscript.
|
| janfields |
Some actually send
rejection letters...printed...with no name on it.
|
| janfields |
No publisher
name
|
| janfields |
No editor
name
|
| janfields |
No
address.
|
| janfields |
There are a couple
things you can do to avoid this.
|
| janfields |
You can fill in the
"return" part of the return address on your SASE
|
| janfields |
You can write the
publisher on the inside flap of your return
envelope
|
| janfields |
Some put a "code" in
their address.
|
| janfields |
In this case, I knew I
had only sent it to Tanglewood...and sure enough, the postage was
from Terre Haute.
|
| janfields |
CCollier says she often
gets her manuscript back when the cover letter says there is no need
to do it.
|
| janfields |
Editors get in
"automatic" mode
|
| janfields |
And if they are lucky,
they have someone to do it for them -- so they just pass the
manuscript and SASE to an assistant.
|
| janfields |
Oh, grams, alas, they
did not accept my picture book.
|
| janfields |
That's okay...pooie on
them :-)
|
| janfields |
But you might want to
work out a system to identify "orphaned"
manuscripts
|
| janfields |
Or rejection letters
with no publisher on them.
|
| janfields |
Artisme asks if I
subbed the PB much.
|
| janfields |
Actually, it's a book
that my agent subbed to all the large houses.
|
| janfields |
I just send it out now
and then when the spirit moves me to smaller
houses.
|
| janfields |
At the large houses it
went to aquisition meetings, but no sale. Sigh
|
| janfields |
Ah...I don't have an
agent anymore.
|
| janfields |
Some relationships just
can't last...cue dramatic music...
|
| janfields |
Oh...I have
questions...enough babbling.
|
| coloradokate |
I know we've discussed
italics vs. quotes for writing thoughts before, but I seem to
remember something about not using italics for early readers... so
how should I do thoughts for that age?
|
| janfields |
For very early
readers...usually what I've seen is thoughts in
quotes.
|
| janfields |
Just like regular
dialogue.
|
| janfields |
But I don't see a lot
of direct thoughts.
|
| janfields |
However, when I see it
for that age group -- publishers use quotes.
|
| janfields |
Plus, the Chicago
manual of style now says it's okay to use thoughts for
quotes.
|
| eggamy |
Does the same rule about
margins apply to MS Word program?
|
| janfields |
Generally the margins
that are defaults in a blank document in WORD are
okay.
|
| janfields |
You'll want to leave
more room at the top of each page...but I just do that by adding
some blank lines to my 'header" for the pages
|
| janfields |
That also helps keep
the header text out of the manuscript text.
|
| janfields |
I always put headers in
with the "HEADER/FOOTER" command in the "VIEW" category in the
menu
|
| janfields |
Just for the record...i
think VIEW is a STUPID place to put header/footer
commands.
|
| janfields |
If MICROSOFT is
listening...stupid place.
|
| janfields |
And we know they have
spies everywhere :-)
|
| janfields |
But if you increase
your upper margin with the header spaces, the side margins are fine
in the default.
|
| little
lulu |
When I entered the forum,
I noticed the photo and book of your next guest on the forum. I
think this is a great idea!
|
| janfields |
Isn't that just
nifty
|
| janfields |
I've often thought that
was wasted space
|
| janfields |
I'm going to put all
the guest speakers up there now.
|
| janfields |
So you guys can see
them...warts and all!
|
| janfields |
Now that you'll see MY
picture up there.
|
| rainchain |
Do publishers ever use
your SASE for good news?
|
| janfields |
Oh yeah, I get a lot of
acceptances and even contracts in my SASE
|
| janfields |
But I'm so conditioned
to assume they're rejections
|
| janfields |
Because when I started
in magazine writing, editors ALWAYS put acceptances in their own
envelopes
|
| janfields |
But now they almost
always use the SASE at some point.
|
| eggamy |
Jan I miss typed that ? I
ment to sey works not word oh boy!
|
| janfields |
I actually don't know
what the margins are in Works
|
| janfields |
I would expect they are
similar though since it's still a Microsoft product
|
| janfields |
Again...you may want to
adjust the top margin
|
| janfields |
I've found a 1-inch
margin just looks too crowded for a manuscript
|
| janfields |
And you end up with too
many words on a page.
|
| little
lulu |
Is there a way to format
a lengthy manuscript by making the changes only once after
highlighting the text? And do I have to always type my name on top
of each page?
|
| janfields |
If you are using
WORD...you can put your name, page number, key word on all the pages
after page one with the Header/Footer command
|
| janfields |
Wordperfect also has
that command
|
| janfields |
I don't know about
Works.
|
| janfields |
In Wordperfect the
command is in the format menu...(I believe) or Insert
maybe
|
| janfields |
In WORD it's in
View
|
| janfields |
Once you choose it, you
get a box that gives you options.
|
| janfields |
For a manuscript, you
ALWAYS want to tick the box for "different first
page"
|
| janfields |
and you NEVER want to
tick the box for "different odd and even pages"
|
| janfields |
With different first
page ticked...you can put your big header (with contact info) on the
first page
|
| janfields |
And the short header on
all the others.
|
| janfields |
There is also a # sign
on that Header/Footer command bar
|
| janfields |
That represents page
numbers
|
| janfields |
You can have WORD put
your page numbers in automatically...and again, you can skip page
numbering the first page
|
| janfields |
But it will still
"count" it...it just won't put a number onit.
|
| janfields |
Using the automatic
header/footer makes it soooooo much easier to do
revision.
|
| janfields |
Because your pages
don't go all wonky when you add stuff or delete
stuff.
|
| coloradokate |
Oh oh, I use one-inch
margins--why would "too many words on a page" be a
concern???
|
| janfields |
Oh a book length
manuscript (novel)
|
| janfields |
And on most magazine
stories
|
| janfields |
Editors assume one full
page of text is about 250 words
|
| janfields |
This lets them
calculate how much space in the final publication
|
| janfields |
your manuscript will
result in
|
| janfields |
If your full pages are
far more than 250 words
|
| janfields |
it makes it a teeny bit
harder on the editor
|
| janfields |
Ehabeeb: Why are we
instructed to use a 1-inch margin on our
assignments?
|
| janfields |
Probably because that's
the default margin for most word processors
|
| janfields |
And we don't want to
make you wrestle your word processor.
|
| janfields |
And because if we don't
ask for 1 in -- we get 1/2 inch
|
| janfields |
Or sometimes no
margins...words right to the edge of the page
|
| janfields |
But, for me...because I
use a lot of dialogue
|
| janfields |
and a lot of short
paragraphs.
|
| janfields |
A 250-word page really
is nearly 1-inch margins.
|
| janfields |
But if you are more
text heavy...you can get 300 words on a page
|
| janfields |
And that will upset an
editor if it's a long long piece.
|
| janfields |
Personally...I use 2
inches at the top (but my header is within that
2-inches)
|
| janfields |
One inch on sides...an
inch and a half on bottom
|
| janfields |
And when I'm doing a
lot of narrative...that hits about 250 words.
|
| janfields |
Editors aren't
measuring your pages
|
| janfields |
But white space is
appealing to a reader
|
| janfields |
Including a tired
editor.
|
| janfields |
So...I like to leave a
little room.
|
| little
lulu |
I appreciate this
information. What I don't like is when there is three inches at the
bottom of the page and I can't seem to do anything about it. How do
I fix it?
|
| janfields |
Hmmm...I don't know why
your word processor is doing that.
|
| janfields |
If you are using
WORD...the PAGE SET-UP command for margins is under
FILE
|
| janfields |
You should be able to
set up your margins there
|
| janfields |
You might be
accidentally getting some blank space out of your "footer"
command...so you might want to check and make sure it's crouching
nice and low on the bottom of the page like it's supposed
to.
|
| bechu |
Can you comment on
suspension of belief?
|
| janfields |
Suspension of belief is
the "gift" your reader gives you.
|
| janfields |
They choose to enter
the story and get involved as if it were real
|
| janfields |
Even though it's
not.
|
| janfields |
It's like a "dream"
state.
|
| janfields |
And we want our readers
involved.
|
| janfields |
Without involvement,
our reader will not be moved by our work.
|
| janfields |
Some things tend to
"awaken" the reader -- jerking them out of that "suspension of
disbelief"
|
| janfields |
Bad writing, or writing
mechanics that feel awkward or clumsy will.
|
| janfields |
Characters that do
things without proper motivation will.
|
| janfields |
Like the rotten rotten
kid who suddenly turns nice because his mom lectured
him.
|
| janfields |
When you don't accept
the writer's logic, you resist the suspension of
disbelief.
|
| janfields |
Sudden introduction of
magical solutions will break the suspension of
disbelief.
|
| janfields |
For example, if the
character just happens to find a million dollars when he's at his
wits end for how to solve his financial problems.
|
| janfields |
Or when a character
just happens to have been a Green Beret even though we get no
inkling of that earlier and just happens to be able to beat the
villian to a pulp.
|
| janfields |
We've all read books in
print that jerk us out of that willingness to
believe.
|
| janfields |
But as writers, we try
not to do that to our readers.
|
| bechu |
Some authoe says
suspension of belief is implied in fiction?
|
| janfields |
Readers WANT to enter
the story.
|
| janfields |
They WANT to suspend
disbelief and believe in the reality of the world you
wrote.
|
| janfields |
Because that is how to
get the most enjoyment from the story.
|
| janfields |
So unless you do
something to prevent it...they will enter in.
|
| janfields |
Unfortunately, we can
do plenty to force an end to that belief.
|
| little
lulu |
This seems to happen most
often when I have been fooling around with the manuscript awhile and
changing things.
|
| coloradokate |
re: Little Lulu--Word
doesn't like to break paragraphs or leave "orphans" so it'll do what
she said.
|
| janfields |
I think you can turn
off widows and orphans...but I am not sure where
|
| janfields |
as I haven't had word
do that to me.
|
| janfields |
You may want to do a
search of the help...it might show you how.
|
| janfields |
Wee Willie: How much
control would a first time author have with changes a publishers
would want have done if they feel that the changes might harm their
storyline? Would the publisher be willing to listen to the author
reasoning for not making those changes?
|
|
|
| janfields |
If you are NOT going
with a book packager...
|
| janfields |
you ultimately have
complete control.
|
| janfields |
However, that control
depends upon your willingness to give up the publishing
contract
|
| janfields |
in lieu of keeping what
you want.
|
| janfields |
Editors will not change
things against your will.
|
| janfields |
But they may ask for
changes you initially resist.
|
| janfields |
The key is to consider
all changes.
|
| janfields |
Linda Sue Park says she
takes every editor suggestion and tries
it...always.
|
| janfields |
Then if the result is
not an improvement...she won't let it go.
|
| janfields |
So, if you seem willing
to consider the editor's idea and try it.
|
| janfields |
But it doesn't go
somewhere you can deal with...you can simply say
that.
|
| janfields |
Some things are
big...for example, if you have a character die and you feel the
character really needs to die for the story to
work.
|
| janfields |
But an editor just
wants the character to go to jail or leave or
something.
|
| janfields |
You might listen with
an open mind to the editor's views...try it...but ultimately feel it
weakens the book...so you can always refuse a
change.
|
| janfields |
But in virtually any
contract is an "out" for the publisher if the writer won't make a
change that the publisher deems NECESSARY.
|
| janfields |
So if the publisher
feels no one will buy the book if the character dies...and you won't
budge.
|
| janfields |
You "could" lose the
contract.
|
| janfields |
But I've heard of many
writers who "drew the line" over something and won...and a few who
have done so and ended up without a contract.
|
| janfields |
So choose battles
wisely and always be open to trying.
|
| janfields |
Right...until your
J.K.Rowling...then go for it.
|
| janfields |
Though, really, even
she could go somewhere he publisher would not allow...she isn't
likely to...but she could.
|
| janfields |
Even her publishers
have limits.
|
| janfields |
They wouldn't...for
instance...allow her to torture Harry to death slowly on the
page.
|
| janfields |
Even if she felt it was
really effective
|
| janfields |
The publisher would
know how much the public could stand.
|
| dell |
Jan, speaking of
revisions, what kind of revisions do you need to do for your
publisher? (congrats, again, btw!!)
|
| janfields |
Hi dell, I'm working
with a book packager
|
| janfields |
So that's a totally
different deal entirely.
|
| janfields |
Technically, my
contract will be MUCH MUCH more restrictive than any you'll sign
with a "normal" publisher.
|
| janfields |
And I'll have to do
whatever they want.
|
| janfields |
Luckily, this venture
of children's books is relatively new to them.
|
| janfields |
And they "tested" the
idea in a focus group (by having me write a short story with the
idea)
|
| janfields |
And the response was so
huge...that they're going to do pretty much whatever I
want.
|
| janfields |
But they wouldn't HAVE
to.
|
| janfields |
And "technically" I
won't even automatically have the right to do my own
revisions.
|
| janfields |
They could do them if
they liked.
|
| janfields |
So what reaches
print...could be different from anything I wrote.
|
| janfields |
It's not likely..and
editors don't really want to become writers most of the
time.
|
| janfields |
But packagers work
under such time crunches that I really won't get to debate commas
and such with an editor.
|
| omalizzie |
What is the difference
between book packager and publisher?
|
| janfields |
A packager originates
an idea.
|
| janfields |
Then they go looking
for writers to turn the idea into a book.
|
| janfields |
MANY series books (true
series books with 20 - 50 books in it)
|
| janfields |
Are done by
packagers.
|
| janfields |
Animorphs ended up
being packaged.
|
| janfields |
Goosebumps was packaged
after a while I think
|
| janfields |
The Clique novels are
packaged.
|
| janfields |
Usually a series will
have all the same "author name" but not written by the same
author.
|
| janfields |
Since I am the lead
author on this series I'm doing...it'll have my
name
|
| janfields |
But one of the things I
agree to is that other folks can write under my name if the series
gets too popular for me to write them.
|
| janfields |
The packager often does
everythign to do with the books
|
| janfields |
but the actual
"publisher" listed on the book won't be te packager...it's be
someone like Harper Collins or whatever.
|
| coloradokate |
Is the Magic Treehouse
series packaged?
|
| janfields |
I think so...I used to
keep up with all the packaged series because I tried out for so many
of them...so I'm not completely sure.
|
| janfields |
But there are sooooooo
many that I would be inclined to suspect packaging.
|
| little
lulu |
How do you find book
packagers, if you have a great idea for a series? Do you query in
the same way as a publisher or work through an agent? I don't seem
them listed in my market guide.
|
| janfields |
SCBWI publishes a list
of packagers.
|
| janfields |
The CWIM used to have a
list of packagers in them...but they may have dropped
that.
|
| janfields |
All the ones I've
"tested" with were referred to me.
|
| janfields |
My agent sent one to
me.
|
| janfields |
Editors I've worked
with have sent a couple.
|
| janfields |
Writer I know have
mentioned them.
|
| janfields |
Book packagers tend to
be "word of mouth" but if you get that SCBWI list
|
| janfields |
You CAN send them
writing samples and they'll consider you for future
"tests"
|
| janfields |
But it's really a lot
of work and no promises.
|
| janfields |
And you have to be very
savvy and experienced at contract time because...well...they don't
play fair.
|
| janfields |
But they back down
really fast.
|
| susan
ralston |
Jan, Magic Tree House is
Mary Pope and Will Osborne only
|
| janfields |
Wow, good for
her.
|
| eggamy |
Are Nancy Drew, the Hardy
Boys
|
| janfields |
Today, yes, they are
packaged.
|
| janfields |
Originally, they were a
"syndicate"
|
| janfields |
which was sort of an
early packager.
|
| gonewest |
How much is a Packager
paid compared to publisher or author
|
| janfields |
MOST packaged deals are
flat fee
|
| janfields |
You get paid...you go
away...it's over.
|
| janfields |
I have heard folks
getting royalities, usually when they came up with both the idea and
the first few books
|
| janfields |
But usually it's flat
fee
|
| janfields |
And it amounts to about
what you would expect for a advance.
|
| janfields |
I've heard of novel
fees from -
|
| janfields |
Some mass market
stuff...like you see at supermarkets
|
| janfields |
The little board book
things
|
| janfields |
Those are
packaged...and pay a lot less.
|
| janfields |
A few hundred
dollars...almost like a magazine article.
|
| janfields |
I know one lady who
sold a picture book to a packager for a few hundred
|
| janfields |
And the book packager
sold a bizillion of them
|
| janfields |
It really took
off.
|
| janfields |
I still see the book,
they get it reillustrated and launch it again because they don't
have to pay the writer.
|
| little
lulu |
What is your series
concept? I'm excited to see your name on all the books coming out.
Congratulations!
|
| janfields |
It's middle grade
fantasy...it's all the things folks say you can't sell to a
publisher these days...
|
| janfields |
magic...
|
| janfields |
a portal to a magical
world...
|
| janfields |
your basic hero's
journey in that world.
|
| janfields |
No time travel...so I
didn't break ALL the no-nos.
|
| dona |
how to avoid package
deals
|
| janfields |
No problem...just don't
approach book packagers.
|
| janfields |
All the publishers in
your market guides are "publishers"
|
| janfields |
So you won't end up
with a book packager unless you actually do it on
purpose.
|
| susan
ralston |
can you elaborate about
time travel is a no-no?
|
| janfields |
It's just one of the
things I heard an agent talk about as sooooo overdone (complete with
eye roll)
|
| janfields |
Time travel -- usually
via some object that sends you back in time to write a
wrong.
|
| janfields |
Magical portals -- that
send you into other dimensions or other worlds
|
| janfields |
Journals -- where the
story is the pages of a journal
|
| janfields |
But all these things do
sell...but it was one agent's ewwww list.
|
| omalizzie |
Aren't the biggest
selling books just that jan? Stephen ....
|
| janfields |
Kids love that
stuff...but when writers find out what kids love
|
| janfields |
SOME tend to try to
churn it out
|
| janfields |
And if your book isn't
that way because that's the way this story needs to be
told
|
| janfields |
Then those things can
seem a bit cliche
|
| janfields |
It's all in how you do
it.
|
| bechu |
Heard of OutSkirts
Press?
|
| janfields |
Yeah, they're one of
those mass market packagers -- aren't they?
|
| janfields |
That name sounds
familiar but I really am not familiar with them.
|
| janfields |
Oh...oph...I jumped the
gun on omalizzies question.
|
| janfields |
So she said
Stephen...
|
| omalizzie |
And big publishers are
behind them?
|
| omalizzie |
King with the Dark Tower
series..JK Rowling with Harry
|
| janfields |
Oh...goodie..I posted
backwards.
|
| janfields |
Sorry,
omalizzie
|
| janfields |
Yes...those things
still sell...but YA agents are seeing a lot of certain
things
|
| janfields |
And it's making them
nervous.
|
| susan
ralston |
If just one agent's
opinion did you give it much weight?
|
| janfields |
Yes and
no.
|
| janfields |
I have a "portal"
novel...I'm not going to try to get the portal out.
|
| janfields |
But I'm going to make
sure that it's very fresh, very unique, very strong voice so it
overcomes
|
| janfields |
anyone thinking the
portal is cliche.
|
| omalizzie |
Behind the packagers? You
mentioned Harper Collins
|
| janfields |
A lot of publishers use
packagers
|
| janfields |
For those multi-book
series
|
| janfields |
The babysitters club
was packaged, for example
|
| janfields |
It's just easier on the
publisher
|
| janfields |
if they get someone
else to handle those series books
|
| janfields |
and leave the
publisher's editors to handle original one-off
books
|
| janfields |
Because you would have
to have an editor familiar with the whole series to handle each book
well.
|
| janfields |
And letting a packager
deal with it...it's just cost efficient for the
publisher.
|
| omalizzie |
Do they send it to
packagers if they think its a good series
|
| janfields |
An original series that
STARTS in a publisher will move to a packager if...
|
| janfields |
demand is greater than
the author can produce
|
| janfields |
or if the author gets
tired of the series grind
|
| janfields |
but the demand is still
very strong.
|
| janfields |
As long as you have one
author for the whole series...it doesn't usually move to a
packager.
|
| dona |
where does that leave us
|
| janfields |
Most of us really want
to sell our original fiction
|
| janfields |
Or our original
series
|
| janfields |
So mostly we
don
|
| janfields |
don't come in contact
with packagers.
|
| janfields |
All the "normal" ways
of submitting avoids packagers...
|
| janfields |
so "normal" submissions
get royalities.
|
| janfields |
They may not get an
advance (with a small publisher)
|
| janfields |
but they'll get
royalities.
|
| janfields |
Okay...it's after
3
|
| janfields |
And I have to get my
wild child.
|
| janfields |
Thanks for coming and
chatting with me
today.
|