| janfields |
August 21, OPEN FORUM
CHAT will begin in 5 minutes. Today we're fielding questions on
picture books or magazine stories -- so pop in with any questions
related to those areas! So be sure to join us in the Auditorium in
five minutes.
|
| janfields |
AUGUST 21 OPEN FORUM
CHAT about picture books or magazine pieces in 2 minutes. Bring your
questions about anything related to writing, submitting, or selling
these...in two minutes.
|
| janfields |
Welcome to OPEN FORUM
CHAT: Picture Books or Magazine Writing! Pull up a chair and play
"Stump the Jan" with your questions about picture books or magazine
writing, submitting, and selling!
|
| janfields |
If you want to ask a
question and be sure it has a chance to be posted, you'll need to
use either the "ask a question" button on the bar across the middle
of your screen. OR type /ask...then space once and type your
question. That passes the question to me and I can post it for
answer. If you type the question in the bar at the bottom of you
screen, I may not see it.
|
| janfields |
We've got quite a few
questions in que already.
|
| janfields |
But first...we get to
hear the good news!!
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS: MARCIA: I'm
not sure where good news goes, but I checked out this clip from the
Aug. 18 Children's Writer eNews ("MARKET NEWS CECIL CHILD is now a
Print publication!...") and subbed science experiment this morning
and not only are they printing my article in their Dec. on-line and
in print magazine, they are hiring me to write their bi-monthly
science column (at per column)!
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS: SARAH:
Thanks for including Cecil Child with the market notes. I just got
word today that they want to print my article, "Promoting Literacy
at Home" in their December issue! How exciting!!!
|
| janfields |
Since both Marcia and
Sarah have Cecil Child good news...I'm cheering them together.
Yippee!!
|
| janfields |
Good job
writerladies.
|
| janfields |
I'm so glad Cecil Child
has turned out to be a good market for folks.
|
| janfields |
They are a regional
parenting mag...but they also take fiction for
kids.
|
| janfields |
And they used to be
online only but now have print editions.
|
| janfields |
Very
cool.
|
| janfields |
Now...more good
news.
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS: Last Spring
I wrote about flea circuses for an ICL lesson, and saw that
Appleseeds' theme for next May is Circuses. I sent them a query, and
just yesterday received an email from them with an assignment!
|
|
|
| janfields |
I love hearing about
ICL assignments with happy endings...YEA PEGGYW
|
| janfields |
Sorry about leaving
your name off.
|
| janfields |
Hey, guess whose good
news...cause Jan is a goof.
|
| janfields |
Sigh
|
| janfields |
So, congratz
Peggy
|
| janfields |
You'll have to tell us
how the process was once you do the whole deal.
|
| janfields |
Okay, writerfolk, let
me jump into some questions...
|
| janfields |
RICKSGAL: Can a story
be turned into a book? How long does the story have to be to be
considered for a picture book?
|
| janfields |
I assume you mean a
magazine story?
|
| janfields |
Most magazine stories
don't translate overwell into picture books.
|
| janfields |
Though some can be
expanded to make good chapter books or even middle grade
novels.
|
| janfields |
The problem is that
magazine stories thrive on about two illustrations...maybe
three...tops
|
| janfields |
And the illustrations
only supplement the story...they don't really TELL the
story.
|
| janfields |
To be a magazine story,
the story really has to work without the
illustrations.
|
| janfields |
And a story that works
without illustrations is usually too detailed for a picture
book
|
| janfields |
Because picture books
depend on the illustrations to make the story
complete.
|
| janfields |
BUT...in terms of
length...a picture book usually runs under 1000
words.
|
| janfields |
Some are as short as 50
words...some even less
|
| janfields |
The key is providing
the needed place for at least 13 very different
illustrations.
|
| emacartist37 |
What is the difference
between a story and a picture book? (The length is similar,
right?)
|
| janfields |
A magazine story and a
picture book often have similar lengths.
|
| janfields |
The real key is in the
need for illustration.
|
| janfields |
A picture book NEEDS
illustrations...lots of them
|
| janfields |
And much of the overall
story is in the illustrations.
|
| janfields |
There is ....
space....in the story for another story...a picture story that
builds along with your text story and the two married together makes
the picture book.
|
| janfields |
A magazine story can
exist alone...a magazine story can be enjoyed completely with no
illustrations at all.
|
| janfields |
They only complement
the story...they don't sustain it or complete it.
|
| emacartist37 |
Is there an advantage to
marketing as picture book versus story?
|
| janfields |
Well, if you are sure
you have a picture book...most magazines won't buy
it.
|
| janfields |
Because it feels
incomplete and they can't create a slew of illustrations for
you.
|
| janfields |
They will only do two
or three...so the real advantage is in marketing what you have
correctly.
|
| janfields |
If the story is being
enjoyed when read aloud with no illustrations, it's probably a
magazine story.
|
| janfields |
If the story doesn't
really feel all the way there and you really feel like...I wish I
had pictures with this so the kids would get it...it's probably a
picture book.
|
| janfields |
You'll need at least 13
illustration possibilities for a picture book and they must be very
different illustrations.
|
| janfields |
And they must be
illustrations filled with activity
|
| janfields |
And lively and with
characters.
|
| janfields |
A story that reads like
this:
|
| janfields |
Joey has a red hat and
a red crayon and four red shirts...
|
| janfields |
doesn't actually have
three illustrations opportunities even though you're naming three
objects.
|
| janfields |
Because illustrations
of static things are no longer in vogue...they were in the days of
the Little Golden Books...but not so much now.
|
| coloradokate |
The marketing tips I read
all seem to define PBs as less than a thousand words, for
preschoolers. But I remember, from when I taught, tons of longer,
deeper, older picture books--like some of Patricia MacLachlan's
("All the Places to Love"), or Cynthia Rylant's, or Patricia
Polacco's. So if those aren't PBs, what are they?
|
| janfields |
Oh...first let me get
ricksgal's question
|
| janfields |
A line like "They have
ducks, dogs, daisies and lowly dandelions too"
|
| janfields |
would not go in a
picture book
|
| janfields |
It has no sense of
story...just objects added on.
|
| janfields |
If the overall
story...is active and moving...you might have that
line
|
| janfields |
and you might have a
single illustration filled with objects...including the eggplant and
frog you mention
|
| janfields |
But you won't have
separate illustrations because you don't have separate
events.
|
| janfields |
So the single line you
mention might be a single illustrations
|
| janfields |
As long as overall you
had a lot more action.
|
| janfields |
Now, back to the
question of long picture books like MacLachlan's and Rylant's and
Polaccos...
|
| janfields |
First, the long picture
book is less in vogue right now than in times past.
|
| janfields |
Second, if you are
MacLachlan, Rylant, Polacco, Wells, or a host of others, you can
write long books now and be published by the big
publishers.
|
| janfields |
Because your name will
sell the book, even if it's long.
|
| janfields |
And if you don't have a
famous name but you have an EXCELLENT picture book of more than 1000
words but well less than 2000 words...
|
| janfields |
you might sell to a
small press like Peachtree.
|
| janfields |
But the big presses are
mostly printing shorter picture books
|
| janfields |
BECAUSE
|
| janfields |
they believe the buyer
for picture books today is the busy preschooler's
mom
|
| janfields |
So they want a book
that can be read by a tired tired parent
|
| janfields |
of a wiggly
preschooler
|
| janfields |
In a matter of
minutes.
|
| janfields |
And the long picture
books don't do that.
|
| janfields |
BUT...I have still seen
long picture books by first time writers ...but mostly from smaller
presses.
|
| janfields |
I think I've seen them
by Tricycle.
|
| janfields |
Charlesbridge
|
| janfields |
Definitely
Peachtree.
|
| janfields |
You can still sell
them...Charlesbridge, for example, does picture books even
targetting school aged kids.
|
| janfields |
But most of the biggies
dont.
|
| janfields |
Short...well, I had a
picture book of 800 words and Harper Collins asked me to cut it in
half to make it more what they like to publish
|
| janfields |
Oh..right Holiday House
has done some longer ones.
|
| janfields |
So, before you
submit...check out your local bookstore and see who is doing the
long picture books.
|
| janfields |
But don't count the
ones by names everyone has known forever...just count the "unknown"
writer books.
|
| rainchain |
what if it feels complete
but has many picture possibilities
|
| janfields |
Depends...some of the
smaller house has done some that feel that way.
|
| janfields |
And if it's
multicultural...you might sell up to the larger houses because they
still like a multicultural feel
|
| janfields |
But overall...if it
feels complete, it's going to be a very tough sell.
|
| janfields |
DIANA: I have written a
1500-word story about a boy during the Depression. The story is
inspirational in nature. I sent the story to Cricket, but they
rejected it. It doesn't seem to fit the criteria for most other
magazines listed in the Magazine Markets for Children's Writers -
it's either too long, more for boys than girls, or just doesn't seem
right for a particular magazine. I thought about Pockets, but they
don't seem to want historical fiction. So I was wondering, how does
one go about finding out about submitting a story for an anthology?
Is this even a possibility? I've had two articles accepted for
publication, but no stories yet.
|
| janfields |
You have a very tough
story
|
| janfields |
For one...I'm not sure
if you mean by "inspirational"
|
| janfields |
It can mean --
hopefilled ending of a story of struggle.
|
| janfields |
Or it can mean
"religious"
|
| janfields |
If you mean a religious
story -- with god and prayer...you're stuck with religious
markets
|
| janfields |
And your story is
long.
|
| janfields |
And you have a
historical...which some magazines are shying away
from.
|
| janfields |
Because historical book
sales are slipping a bit.
|
| janfields |
And the makes editors
think kids want contemporary...which is coloring the magazine
market.
|
| janfields |
You could try Story
Station...which takes very long stories and sometimes historical and
definitely inspirational.
|
| janfields |
PASSION: How many times
can I submit to the same magazine. Not the same story?
|
|
|
| janfields |
I personally believe in
never giving up.
|
| janfields |
If you've collected
rejections from a magazine...
|
| janfields |
that doesn't mean you
need to give up on it.
|
| janfields |
It does mean you should
really really read some issues of the magazine
|
| janfields |
and think about what
they are telling you.
|
| janfields |
Some folks miss
stuff...
|
| janfields |
for example, long time
readers of Highlights will
|
| janfields |
still send stories with
pirates
|
| janfields |
or stories with
historical violence -- fighting
|
| janfields |
Or stories with name
calling or siblings fighting
|
| janfields |
even though Highlights
has never published stuff like that.
|
| janfields |
So see if you can break
down the elements of your story indiviually
|
| janfields |
and see if the magazine
does stuff like that.
|
| janfields |
Then, if you have
something that fits...send it.
|
| janfields |
I believe in trying
forever.
|
| janfields |
I get rejections from
Highlights and I also make sales to them.
|
| janfields |
So, rejections don't
really mean much beyond...they didn't want that
piece.
|
| janfields |
Unless you're getting
rejections consistently...then look at why you might be
missing.
|
| janfields |
And send something
new.
|
| rainchain |
I have seen a few places
ask that you not submit again till
|
| janfields |
I assume you were going
to complete with "until you hear back on previous
submissions"
|
| janfields |
Which is good
advice.
|
| janfields |
I don't PERSONALLY take
it really well.
|
| janfields |
I pretty much send what
I think fits the publication.
|
| janfields |
If I happen to create
something new that I think fits but I still haven't heard back on
something old...I send the new thing anyway.
|
| janfields |
And I have sold both in
those situations.
|
| janfields |
But I never never never
never never shotgun submissions
|
| janfields |
Shotgunning is when you
send to everyone you think even MIGHT accept it.
|
| janfields |
Without any market
study beyond glancing at the market guide.
|
| janfields |
When I send something,
I've given a lot of thought to the market, and usually read examples
from it.
|
| janfields |
SNOWBELL asks: I have a
question about magazine stories. After submitting to Highlights, I
received a letter back askign for revisions. How long do I have to
get the revision sent back in?
|
| janfields |
I normally take about
two weeks unless I need more research...then I take as long as I
need.
|
| janfields |
The reality is that
Highlights might not run the thing for YEARS...so they aren't
turning on a dime.
|
| janfields |
They are happy to wait
until you're done.
|
| janfields |
But you don't want to
give youself too long of a "deadline" because you'll lose your
momentum.
|
| janfields |
I find that if I hold a
deadline off too long...I get tired of the piece.
|
| janfields |
So...give youself time
to do the revison, feel totally comfortable with it...even give it
some est time and rereading befor emailing
|
| janfields |
I totally cannot type
today.
|
| janfields |
Please forgive
me.
|
| janfields |
Jonwilson:When a
submission is not picked up by one magazine, is it proper to
resubmit to a different magazine?
|
| janfields |
I usually give myself a
little rest time after a rejection.
|
| janfields |
Then when I'm done
pouting about it, I read it to see if there is something wrong with
the thing.
|
| janfields |
And I fix any
problems.
|
| janfields |
Then, yes, I send
somewhere else.
|
| janfields |
But not to another
magazine in the original magazine's Family
|
| janfields |
There is no point to
that...the Cricket group shares between magazines if they like a
story.
|
| janfields |
The Hopscotch group --
same way.
|
| janfields |
Usually a rejection by
any CBHI magazine is a rejection by all.
|
| janfields |
But certain...send it
out again to a fresh magazin.
|
| rainchain |
Yes what are books like
Henry and Mudge?
|
| janfields |
They are early chapter
books.
|
| janfields |
They can be very
short...around 1500 words...
|
| janfields |
all the way to a few
thousand.
|
| janfields |
Books like Marvin
Redpost or Junie B. Jones are chapter books too and they run more
like 5000 words.
|
| janfields |
An early chapter book
doesn't NEED illustrations.
|
| janfields |
It reads more like a
long magazine story.
|
| janfields |
You need to take care
not to overwhelm the young reader's vocabularly.
|
| janfields |
And you need to break
it into chapters.
|
| janfields |
Most of the chapter
books have from 5 (early chapter books) to 8...sometimes
10.
|
| coloradokate |
So there's no market
anymore for thoughtful picture books for older kids? (And are they
called "story picture books?"
|
| janfields |
Sure...just with
smaller picture book publishers.
|
| janfields |
But don't call them
picture story books when you submit.
|
| janfields |
Just call them picture
books...and be sure they do publish the long ones.
|
| rainchain |
i have a 760 word story
with 8 different scenes is that a pb
|
| janfields |
Maybe...if there is
enough action to make more very different
illustrations.
|
| janfields |
Lots of picture books
take place in pretty much the same location.
|
| janfields |
With lots of changes in
action.
|
| ginger7 |
If you get a postcard
saying they are considering your
|
| ginger7 |
submission, what are the
chances it will be pub?
|
| janfields |
It depends on who you
got the postcard from.
|
| janfields |
Often they mean you got
past the "pre-reader" and got logged in to be read by a real
editor.
|
| janfields |
Which means the
pre-reader didn't think you stunk...which is very
nice.
|
| janfields |
(by the way, not
everyone has pre-readers so not getting a card doesn't mean
much)
|
| janfields |
But getting a card
doesn't mean THAT much...you have a better chance...usually it means
someone liked it.
|
| janfields |
But you're still in a
lot of competition.
|
| ginger7 |
I got it from the
amnaging Editor
|
| janfields |
Again...it may just be
part of their system...but it DOES mean someone somewhere thought
your manuscript was worth reading and considering.
|
| janfields |
So that's good, but
don't get your hopes up TOO far.
|
| jeanette
h |
what is the age group for
early chapter books?
|
| janfields |
Usually first grade to
third.
|
| leanna |
Books for 1nd and 2nd
grade-- are they long "picture books"
|
| janfields |
Sometimes...it
depends.
|
| janfields |
First and Second can be
done as early chapter books.
|
| janfields |
And first graders may
still like being read to...thus the short picture
book.
|
| janfields |
But some of the smaller
publishers who do the long books have done picture books clearly for
children up to third or fourth grade.
|
| leanna |
how do you find the names
for your characters?
|
| janfields |
Names just pop in my
head...but lots of folks use baby name books
|
| janfields |
Or baby name
websites.
|
| janfields |
You can find lots of
them...just type "baby names" into google
|
| janfields |
Multitudes will
appear.
|
| janfields |
The site that show
popular names by year can be good.
|
| janfields |
Because they can help
older writers avoid naming kids things like "Sally" or "Bob" which
are names you don't see in classrooms much
|
| janfields |
BEYOND WORDS: I've been
looking at a lot of writers' websites lately. Many of them showcase
a sampling of their short stories and articles. Aren't these authors
giving up any chance at reselling these works by posting them? I
mean who would pay for reprint rights for something that is
available free to all?
|
|
|
| janfields |
Yeah...putting your
work on your website does create some publishing
headaches.
|
| janfields |
The better paying
markets tend not to want stuff that's been on your
website.
|
| janfields |
So...that can be an
issue.
|
| janfields |
But some folks will put
up a story after it's "made the rounds" if they still like the
story.
|
| janfields |
Because then someone
will read it...and we do love to be read.
|
| janfields |
And some novel
writers...especially series novels
|
| janfields |
Will do short stories
with the series characters as a kind of "gift" to the
readers.
|
| janfields |
So...there are times
when it's not a bad idea...but those are mostly for stories you
never indend for print publication.
|
| wheelerclown |
I wrote and am in the
process of trying to publish a story of Santa Claus dealing with a
temporary disability but still finding he can continue as normal
with special equipment. I keep hearing that protagonists of children
stories always have to be children. But a novel idea using an adult
with a problem children can relate ot would still work, wouldn't
it.
|
| janfields |
Actually there are lots
of picture books with adult protags
|
| janfields |
And you even see it in
magazine stories (though a bit less often)
|
| janfields |
It tends to depend upon
whether there is a good reason for kids to want to read the
story.
|
| janfields |
You hit a whole new
problem with this story and that's SANTA
|
| janfields |
A lot of publishers
don't like SANTA
|
| janfields |
Because he is self
limiting in sales.
|
| janfields |
They have to sell to
people who do Christmas but not people who think Santa is killing
the religious reason behind Christmas
|
| janfields |
And some publishers
just don't want to do Santa...while others LOVE SANTA because even
though there are plenty of folks who don't like Santa...there are
bizillions who do.
|
| janfields |
Magazines (by and
large) won't TOUCH Santa.
|
| bbob |
how many years do
childeren actually read picture books?
|
| janfields |
Depends on the
child...but most picture books today (most, not all by any means)
target preschoolers but not babies.
|
| janfields |
Babies are a separate
catagory.
|
| janfields |
But if you're willing
to expand to smaller publishers...then picture books can target up
to fourth grade.
|
| janfields |
And some picture books
clearly are written to target adults.
|
| janfields |
And are thinly veiled
memoirs or lessons in parenting.
|
| ricksgal |
Aren't babies difficult
to write for?
|
| janfields |
Oh yeah...it's a highly
specialized market
|
| janfields |
But having said
that...Alice Letvin recently told me Babybug could use some
submissions.
|
| wheelerclown |
What exactly is the
difference between a picture book and an illustrated
book?
|
| janfields |
Well, lots of chapter
books have illustrations.
|
| janfields |
Most easy-to-reads have
illustrations.
|
| janfields |
Some middle-grade
novels have a couple.
|
| janfields |
Though few middle-grade
novels have color illustrations.
|
| janfields |
Then you have the whole
graphic novel trend...which is very hot...and they are heavily
illustrated and usually in color.
|
| janfields |
Looking like comic
books...only thick.
|
| robinb |
I have a mother's day
story in verse-pb what houses are best
|
| janfields |
I'm sorry, I don't
know.
|
| janfields |
I don't write
verse.
|
| janfields |
You would need to
...read picture books (preferably at the book store not the
library)
|
| janfields |
If it's very
sentimental...you might want to read the publishers who are
publishing that sort of thing.
|
| janfields |
You can also check on
Amazon...most books in print are on Amazon.
|
| janfields |
Find books like
yours...in verse, focused on moms...see who published
them.
|
| janfields |
Okay folks...it's
3pm...wow, you asked a lot of questions.
|
| janfields |
I'll catch up any
extras on the newsletter.
|
| janfields |
Oh...let me add in
Rainchain's suggestion to search for similar books on
jacketflap.com
|
| janfields |
Just so it'll be in the
transcript.
|