| janfields |
August 1, OPEN FORUM
will begin in 5 minutes. Today we're flying without a topic so ask
any writing question you like. What I don't know, I'll do my best to
find out. Come join us in five minutes.
|
| janfields |
AUGUST 1st OPEN FORUM
begins in 2 minutes. Bring your questions about any topic related to
your writing or writing life...in two minutes.
|
| janfields |
If you want to ask a
question and be sure it has a chance to be posted, you'll need to
use either the "ask a question" button on the bar across the middle
of your screen. OR type /ask...then space once and type your
question. That passes the question to me and I can post it for
answer. If you type the question in the bar at the bottom of you
screen, I may not see it.
|
| janfields |
Welcome to OPEN FORUM:
The sky's the limit today -- ask anything and we'll see what I can
do with the question! What do you need to know about writing
today?
|
| janfields |
Hi folks...today we're
fielding a bunch of questions.
|
| janfields |
Some tough ones that I
actually had to LOOK STUFF UP for...you know how that hurts
;-)
|
| janfields |
I just wanted to slip
in a note that there will be no guest chat this
week.
|
| janfields |
And also no night forum
on Friday.
|
| janfields |
Usually there is one or
the other...but it's hot and I'm whiney...so...um, there won't
be.
|
| janfields |
I probably should have
come up with a more professional sounding reason
though.
|
| janfields |
So...um....pretend I
did.
|
| janfields |
Lets hit a quick good
news first....
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS: JO: I have
finished the my ICL book writing course and can start sending out
inquiries for my book.
|
| janfields |
YAY...I'm always glad
to hear about folks finishing a course.
|
| janfields |
And I hope you have as
much success with your book as our last guest speaker, whose ICL
course novel was published and got a starred review in
Kirkus.
|
| janfields |
Okay...on to the
questions.
|
| janfields |
If you want to toss in
a mild comment on topic...or even an LOL or cute remark about the
great pontificating Jan...that's cool.
|
| janfields |
But if you want to chat
off-topic, try to remember to slip to PRIVATE MESSAGE if possible so
folks don't have trouble keeping the topic in mind.
|
| janfields |
And of course, if you
have a question...hey, ask away...but if you use the question
button...it's way easier for me to answe.
|
| guestspeaker |
Wee Willie Winkie: Are
there any book contests that don't stress on American historical
fiction but allows for any type of historical fiction story as an
entry?
|
| janfields |
There are general
contests that accept historical but don't have specific demands for
it...
|
| janfields |
they would certainly be
open to historical set in other countries.
|
| janfields |
The Delacorte, for
example, accepts contemporary or historical...
|
| janfields |
and it doesn't have to
be American history.
|
| janfields |
There are also contests
held by MANY art's councils.
|
| janfields |
So it pays to look into
whether any exist in your state.
|
| janfields |
Here in CT, we have the
Tassie Walden New Voices award.
|
| janfields |
Those contests are
often VERY fond of historical and it would not have to be American
history.
|
| janfields |
Or US
history.
|
| janfields |
Also, Smart Writer's
runs a contest every year -- the Write it Now! for which winners
were just selected.
|
| janfields |
And they are open to
all genres..including not US history.
|
| janfields |
Most guidebooks list
book contests as "open" in content.
|
| janfields |
Some few want
multicultural (and that doesn't have to be located in the US but
does often imply contemporary).
|
| janfields |
So, really unless the
contest says "contemporary" or "US history" you can assume it's open
-- there are actually not a lot of contests that focus on US
history.
|
| janfields |
If you're published
outside the US, of course, there may be a slight bit stronger
interest in history in that country.
|
| janfields |
But I've read
historical fiction from Africa, UK, and lots of "third world"
situations.
|
| janfields |
So, it's pretty
open.
|
| janfields |
Wait...wait...stop the
presses.
|
| janfields |
Cool
news
|
| dell |
Jan, I have good news,
too. A writer friend of mine got her Sterling 2006 children's
catalog and told me my picture book had a red star next to it which
indicates it's a 'best seller!'
|
| janfields |
That's our Dell...and
WONDERFUL...and for such a great book.
|
| janfields |
Ahhh...transcript, you
don't know...but wild cheering is happening.
|
| janfields |
And...it's DESERVED
cheering.
|
| janfields |
Okay...back to
business...
|
| caq |
In the book course, we
have to do a description of the book using beginning, middle and end
and also do character sketches for lesson 2. How deep are they
etched in stone? If you start going in a slightly differnt direction
later, will that be allowed?
|
| janfields |
Yes, you can actually
end up changing direction a lot as you work on it.
|
| janfields |
It's TOTALLY not etched
in stone.
|
| janfields |
Now if your instructor
feels like the way you're going isn't as good as the way you
intended to go.
|
| janfields |
She might say, "I
thought you intended to have part of the story take place at camp"
or whatever...just to see what your reasoning behind the change
is
|
| janfields |
But the description and
character sketches aren't any more binding that they would be to any
writer doing the pre-work of a book and then feeling a needed change
as she writes.
|
| gladys1 |
Jan how long does a
writer wait before sending in a second request for info on a
manuscript, when the time has passed for a reply
|
| janfields |
I think one month is a
good rule-of-thum.
|
| janfields |
thumb
|
| janfields |
But it's worthwhile to
find out how much the "STATED" response time = the USUAL response
time.
|
| janfields |
And one wonderful place
to discover that is at verlakay.com
|
| janfields |
On her forums...folks
report their ACTUAL response times with dozens of publishers and
editors
|
| janfields |
And from that you can
see that...say....one publisher may say they respond in 4 months but
they always respond to all the writers on the board in 6 months...so
you might as well wait out the 6 months.
|
| janfields |
I would always check
there before sending out a status query...then add a month to the
ACTUAL response time.
|
| caq |
If you are writing a
fiction book, but using a few facts, do you have to include a
bibliography?
|
| janfields |
No...but if you have
sources, it will impress the publisher.
|
| janfields |
So, you might want to
mention in your cover letter that your research for the book
included...
|
| janfields |
and then give your
couple sources very briefly.
|
| janfields |
It just makes you look
more professional and thorough and publishers LIKE that in a
writer.
|
| janfields |
But, it's not really
something most fiction publishers expect.
|
| caq |
If y ou submitted a story
to a publsher for a guaranteed 3 months exclusive read and the 3
months are up, should you contact the other editor before submitting
it elsewhere? We got guarnateed reads from the editors who were at
the Feb SCBWI in NY. One reuqested 3 mos exclusive in
return.
|
| janfields |
Golly, technology is
fun
|
| janfields |
Okay. If you got a
promised read...and the time of the "exclusive" is
up.
|
| janfields |
It is perfectly
acceptable to drop a note saying that you're not pressuring the
editor to make a decision...
|
| janfields |
but that you are going
to open submissions to a few more editors...
|
| janfields |
since the time of the
exclusive is up.
|
| janfields |
Plus, I would give the
editor at least a week or two beyond the "agreed upon"
exclusive...for me, probably two.
|
| janfields |
At any rate, editors
don't get angry at that.
|
| janfields |
OK...another quick GOOD
NEWS...both fohkitten and rainchain have stuff THIS MONTH in
Fandangle Magazine...
|
| janfields |
And Rainchain even did
illustrations.
|
| janfields |
How cool is
that?
|
| janfields |
BETH: Can a story be
written in complete dialogue? Description being in the dialogue
instead of the narration.
|
| to the apple
orchard," said Bill. |
|
| apples. Let's
pick one to eat." said Mary. |
|
| said
Tilly. |
|
| too high." said
Bill |
|
| janfields |
Basically
...no.
|
| janfields |
BUT...I have seen very
very very short stuff (like under 200 words)...
|
| janfields |
in magazines like KEYS
FOR KIDS
|
| janfields |
That were written
basically just in dialogue.
|
| janfields |
But if you're writing
more of a story...it's not going to work.
|
| janfields |
It's very tricky to do
well, because it's almost impossible to avoid having your character
sound odd...telling each other stuff they can plainly
see.
|
| janfields |
Even in the few small
pieces I've seen published, like in KEYS...I've never seen it done
well.
|
| janfields |
It really is hard...and
editors don't like it.
|
| janfields |
And readers don't like
it.
|
| janfields |
They want to be able to
see your story...with stilted dialogue and no showing, it's really
tough for them to get that "suspension of disbelief" that makes a
story work.
|
| janfields |
So, even if you handle
the dialogue masterfully...you're still holding the reader at a
distance.
|
| janfields |
BETH: The second
question is:
|
| not be used
instead of those miserable quotation marks? |
|
| apple orchard.
|
|
| red
apples |
|
| janfields |
Only if you've decided
to write a play
|
| janfields |
And then you need to
some "stage setting" so you'll need stage directions and
such.
|
| janfields |
I've done that kind of
format for puppet plays...with minimal stage direction...but even
then I give some.
|
| rainchain |
What makes a mystery a
mystery for young children can a
|
| rainchain |
puzzle they solve be a
mystery story?
|
| janfields |
I saw a collection of
about 100 word "mysteries" in American Girl last
year.
|
| janfields |
I think they had four
stories in all.
|
| janfields |
Each was basically a
puzzle...and the reader solved the "mystery" by solving the
puzzle.
|
| janfields |
That is actually quite
popular for school aged readers.
|
| janfields |
And I know the
Hopscotch group likes them also.
|
| janfields |
So...yes, it can be a
mystery if it's a kind of puzzle for the reader to
solve.
|
| janfields |
Encyclopedia Brown
stories were all like that...and they're still in print after all
these years.
|
| janfields |
Kids like
them.
|
| caq |
How do you know when one
chapter ends and another begins when writing a book. I think this
was asked before, but I am not sure.
|
| janfields |
I usually break
chapters with some kind of "high" spot.
|
| janfields |
A
surprise.
|
| janfields |
Or a
question.
|
| janfields |
Or even a kind of
joke.
|
| janfields |
You want the chapter to
feel ended...not like you just stopped and smacked a chapter break
in there.
|
| janfields |
But you want it also to
end on a high note so reader interest is really really
high.
|
| janfields |
Because reader interest
needs to pull the reader into the next chapter ... or back into the
book if they've stopped at that point.
|
| janfields |
It doens't have to be a
"cliffhanger" but it needs to be high interest.
|
| janfields |
Now, if you're writing
an early reader chapter book...like the Dragon books by
Pilkey.
|
| janfields |
Each chapter is really
a separate story...tied together chronologically
|
| janfields |
and with the same
character.
|
| janfields |
So there is a strong
"finished" sense at each chapter.
|
| janfields |
But you want novel
chapters to be a little more alluring at the end.
|
| showauthor |
How does one go about
finding a critique group in there own
|
| janfields |
One great way to look
for a critique group is your library "notices"
board.
|
| janfields |
Because even groups
that don't meet in the library, often advertise
there.
|
| janfields |
It's kind of the
logical spot...since writers live at the library.
|
| janfields |
Another spot is notice
boards at continuing ed departments in colleges.
|
| janfields |
If you don't find one
local...put up your own notice and get one going!
|
| janfields |
Libraries are often
open to hosting groups in their meeting rooms and it's usually
free.
|
| janfields |
Though if you want
food...you usually have to choose a different
setting.
|
| coloradokate |
I'm signing up for our
regional fall SCBWI conference, and Kathleen Duey (famous for a
great ICL chat!) is going to be speaking, so that's cool... but my
question involves an agent presentation. I write MG; would I be
interested in looking for agents?
|
| janfields |
Agents are becoming
increasingly interested in middle grade authors.
|
| janfields |
The publishing industry
is "discovering" the middle grade again.
|
| janfields |
I don't know if it's
going to be the "hot thing" like YA is right now...but the sight is
turning.
|
| janfields |
So it's not a bad time
to score an agent...you don't absolutely have to have
one.
|
| janfields |
I hear of middle grade
writers regularly who are selling just fine without
agents.
|
| janfields |
But they are nice to
have for negotiations and for just keeping your manuscript always in
front of osmeone.
|
| janfields |
DAWNLEE: Exactly what
do they mean by retold fables. How much are you expected to change
& how much are you expected to keep the same?
|
| janfields |
A retold fable or folk
tale means you keep the structure of the original.
|
| janfields |
And you wouldn't change
the "point" but mostly "retold" is about adding.
|
| janfields |
Because most fables and
folks tales were meant to be oral
|
| janfields |
Their original record
is a bit "showing free" -- all telling.
|
| janfields |
So most "retellers" add
all the showing and action that grabs readers.
|
| janfields |
And keeps basically all
the original structure.
|
| janfields |
Now, you can also
totally re-craft folk/fairy tales and fables...it's done all the
time.
|
| janfields |
But that is a slightly
different creature...and involved changing not just the
details.
|
| janfields |
But the
structure.
|
| janfields |
Having Cinderella
decide not to marry the prince but to leave her life of drudgery and
open her own cleaning service.
|
| janfields |
Or
whatever.
|
| janfields |
That can be done for
laughs...like the Rumplestiltskin something...by vivian vande
velde
|
| janfields |
Or it can be done to
make some kind of "statement"
|
| janfields |
such as the Disney
restructuing of so many stories.
|
| janfields |
ROSE: In February 2005,
I submitted a picture book manuscript to a Christian publisher.
After six months with no word, I sent a follow up status letter.
That was in October 2005. When I still hadn't heard from them, I
sent another follow up status letter in March 2006. In May 2006, I
received the status letter dated in March 2006 and it said they
received the manuscript and it was rejected. Inside the letter was
there form rejection post card but not my manuscript. Last Saturday,
I received the status letter dated October 2005 and it said they
received the manuscript and it was under consideration. SO my
question is, do I contact the publisher for clarification or just
hope for the best? This is a simultaneous submission so they aren't
my only hope.
|
|
|
| janfields |
It sounds to me like
they were "cleaning house" and "found" the status response from 2005
and mailed it EVEN THOUGH they had written and sent a NEW status
response that contradicted it.
|
| janfields |
If it were me...I would
consider it rejected
|
| janfields |
And just mark them off
my list and move on.
|
| janfields |
I would also keep in
mind...they lose stuff.
|
| janfields |
But..sadly, that's not
especially unusual.
|
| caq |
Again, in the book
course, if we make changes as we go along, would it help if in the
letter to the instructor, we explalined what we did and why and the
plans now that the change is taking place?
|
| janfields |
You can, especially if
it's a big change...but if it were me in the course, I probably
wouldn't
|
| janfields |
unless I specifically
wanted my instructor to focus on those changes.
|
| janfields |
Instructors tend to
focus on the stuff you draw their attention toward.
|
| janfields |
So I would save notes
for those things you REALLY want comment on.
|
| eggamy |
Jan which ICL course do
you teach?
|
| janfields |
Ah...and easy
one.
|
| janfields |
I teach the short
course that focuses on magazines.
|
| janfields |
And I teach Revise to
Publish and Pipeline to Publication -- those are strictly "coaching"
courses where you only send something in if you want "coaching"
and
|
| janfields |
it costs extra to send
in manuscripts for coaching.
|
| rainchain |
if you retell a fable
within an article do tenses have to
|
| rainchain |
match or can article be
present fable past vice versa?
|
| janfields |
As long as you
transition in and out of the fable well, you can use a different
tense...just be certain not to confuse the reader.
|
| janfields |
Or make the transition
feel jerky or awkward.
|
| caq |
When writing a book, how
do you know how to estimate the lenght?
|
| janfields |
I have no idea...I just
write until it feels done...then see what WORD says I
wrote.
|
| janfields |
Sorry.
|
| janfields |
But, as a
dyed-in-the-wool magazine writer...I ALWAYS write
short.
|
| gladys1 |
when you make a plan or
outline then the characters go their own way can you redo the
outline later
|
| janfields |
Nope, I
wouldn't...unless I really suddenly felt LOSZT
|
| janfields |
LOST
|
| janfields |
Then I might try
outlining so I can figure out what to do next.
|
| gladys1 |
if a publisher says that
a manuscript is not strong enough for them what exactly would they
be looking for in an addition and would you resubmit after "fixing"
it
|
| janfields |
It could mean a lot of
things...
|
| janfields |
not enough
THEME...meaning they didn't think it revealled a universal truth
through the telling that would give a reader something to think
about .
|
| janfields |
It could mean your
characters didn't feel "real" enough or they didn't completely
believe your plot.
|
| janfields |
It's a pretty "non
helpful" rejection.
|
| janfields |
I might think in those
three areas though -- theme, character and strength/logic in
plot.
|
| janfields |
It also might mean you
lacked a subplot (if a book)...
|
| janfields |
But likely one of
those.
|
| gladys1 |
do you pay an agent to
read your mss or does that come when s/he sells your
mss
|
| janfields |
No, don't pay
agents.
|
| janfields |
Agents get their money
from your advance
|
| janfields |
and from your
royalties.
|
| janfields |
NOW...having said
that...
|
| janfields |
some agents will bill
you specific office expenses...
|
| janfields |
like messaging fees
(this happens more with NY agents)
|
| janfields |
Because they can send
your manuscript quickly to an editor and get i under the editor's
face within the day.
|
| janfields |
But some agents just
hold that and get it out of your advance.
|
| janfields |
Other
charge.
|
| janfields |
BUT NEVER EVER EVER pay
them just to read your manuscript
|
| janfields |
Or to "critique" it or
to "edit" it...that's not an acceptable expense
|
| janfields |
Nether is "office fee
pools" where you pay a few hundred and they say they will take
office fees out.
|
| stretch |
What qualifies people to
serve in a crituque group?
|
| janfields |
Well, it really helps
if they read a lot
|
| janfields |
Honestly, a critique
group that doesn't read published material is close to
useless
|
| janfields |
And it needs to be
published CHILDREN'S material
|
| janfields |
A critique group that
basicaly reads adult novels will give you really bad
advice.
|
| janfields |
But beyond that...not
qualifications.
|
| janfields |
Some folks are better
at critiquing than others.
|
| janfields |
Some can be very
specific...others only get a vague feeling of something not
working.
|
| janfields |
Some are anal
grammarians...others see the big picture.
|
| janfields |
That's why a group of
several folks can give you sucha nice full picture of your
problems.
|
| janfields |
But really...don't take
anything TOO seriously from a person who never reads childrne's
material.
|
| caq |
Do you now anything about
WRiter's Relief? Dragon Lady asked about it in the discussion board
Marketing section. The web site is: http://www.writersrelief.com/ It
sounds expensive to me. But maybe if you are extremely successful
and need someone to do that stuff.
|
| janfields |
I'm awfully sorry, I
really don't know anything about it.
|
| janfields |
But I'll ask around...I
promise.
|
| charweb |
Is there any no fee
online critique group?
|
| janfields |
There are literally
hundreds if not thousands of children's writing critique
groups.
|
| janfields |
MOST don't charge
fees.
|
| janfields |
I know BOOST does...but
I don't know of any others.
|
| janfields |
If you join a group
through SCBWI, you have to be a member of SCBWI...but the critique
groups aren't an extra fee or anything like that.
|
| janfields |
Mostly you need to
"hang out" where other children's writers are...
|
| janfields |
and eventually someone
will say, "We have empty slots in our critique group...anyone want
to join?"
|
| janfields |
Or equally, you can
post a notice of what you write (as specific in terms of age group
and genre as you can be) and that you want to join a
group.
|
| janfields |
If you do that at
enough writers "hang outs" -- you'll find a free
group.
|
| janfields |
I know some folks from
the message boards here have formed groups.
|
| janfields |
Groups form regularly
from the CW list on yahoogroups.
|
| janfields |
And there are other
boards you can ask on...and other mailing list.
|
| janfields |
Which makes me
think...I could do some kind of "critique hook up" in the ICL email
newsletter if folks would like.
|
| janfields |
Let me think on
it...and I'll float the idea by y'all -- okay?
|
| gonewest |
If you have an agent,
shouldn't they read your manuscript
|
| gonewest |
and tell you your story
lacks something before submiting it?
|
| janfields |
Yes, they can and they
will.
|
| janfields |
Some will at long long
long tedious...annoying length.
|
| janfields |
And you should never
have to pay for that.
|
| janfields |
Oh...well, it's after
three.
|
| janfields |
And there are plenty of
leftover questions.
|
| janfields |
I promise to get them
all and answer them in the Monday
newsletter.
|