| janfields |
Join us tonight in the
AUDITORIUM-Scheduled Events Room for an open forum chat. Tonight's
topic is "Humor." Humor is something nearly every editor is asking
for -- but how do we know if we've got it right? Come and join in
five minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Tonight's Open Forum
Chat on the topic of "Humor" will begin shortly. While you wait for
chat to begin, feel free to use your ASK A QUESTION button RIGHT
BETWEEN THE YELLOW “MAP” AND THE RED QUESTION MARK IN ICHAT to post
some questions or comments on humor -- writing humorous storie or
humor for different age groups. Chat will begin two minutes from
now.
|
| janfields |
Hi, and welcome to Open
Forum. I'm your host/moderator, Jan Fields -- and tonight we're
going to chat about humor. If you want to ask a question and be sure
I get a chance to see it... you'll need to use either the "ask a
question" button on the bar across the middle of your screen. OR
type /ask...then space once and type your question. That passes the
question to me and I can post it to answer for you and in the
transcript. Now, let's get going.
|
| janfields |
Humor is something
virtually every editor...
|
| janfields |
I have ever spoken with
mentions as something she/he wants...
|
| janfields |
Same with
agents.
|
| janfields |
That's because humor
sells books.
|
| janfields |
It doesn't always fare
as well with awards committees...
|
| janfields |
but kids love to
laugh.
|
| janfields |
Plus, I recently spent
a lot of time researching humor...
|
| janfields |
for an article for the
Children's Writer...
|
| janfields |
or the Guide to
Children's Writing -- I forget which...
|
| janfields |
And I just heard a
great workshop on humor by Steve Mooser...
|
| janfields |
so I'm rev'ved to talk
chuckles.
|
| janfields |
BUT
FIRST...
|
| janfields |
my favorite
goodie...the good news posts...
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS: MINKADOO:
After a long two years. I'm a virgin no longer, to the writing world
that is.And oh what a feeling. I received my first acceptance from
Once Upon A Time. Yeah!
|
| janfields |
I have heard more
success stories involving Once Upon A Time
lately...
|
| janfields |
and I just LOVE that
magazine.
|
| janfields |
If you ever want to
subscribe to a writing magazine that just makes you feel like you're
hanging out with writers...
|
| janfields |
that's a great
one.
|
| janfields |
So...yippee...Minkadoo
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS: HIGH HOPES:
Received a contract today from Byline magazine saying they are going
to buy my article and corresponding quiz. My article is called "A
Writer's Homework" but they said they might use a different title.
Oh well, still very happy!!!!!
|
| janfields |
I actually swiped this
good news from the Writer's Retreat...
|
| janfields |
but I wanted to cheer
too...YEA, HIGH HOPES
|
| janfields |
Very
cool.
|
| janfields |
Now...one of the
promises I made for tonight was a humor reading
list.
|
| janfields |
And that's kind of hard
because there are a lot of books
|
| janfields |
that I love, but that
aren't necessarily a kid favorite.
|
| janfields |
But...I do have a
few...
|
| janfields |
Humor Reading List:
[For Young Children] Don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus by Mo
Willems. Wait, No Paint by Bruce Whatley. [Readers] Goofball Malone
by Stephen Mooser. Junie B. Jones by Barbara Park and Marvin Redpost
by Louis Sacher. [Middle Grade] No More Dead Dogs by Gordon Korman.
|
| janfields |
And if you guys want to
throw in a few...I'll copy them into the
transcript...
|
| janfields |
so feel free to name a
couple of your favorites right in the room where you
are...
|
| janfields |
How Will I Ever Sleep
in this Bed by our much loved Della Ross Ferreri
|
| janfields |
Oh...and When The Cows
Come Home for Christmas by another beloved writer Dori
Chaconas
|
| janfields |
I Wanna Iguana by Karen
Orloff -- I love that one and the illustrations are hysterical
too
|
| janfields |
A Splendid Friend in
Deed by Suzanne Bloom
|
| janfields |
Tacky the Penguin by
Helen Lester
|
| janfields |
Seadogs by Lisa
Wheeler
|
| janfields |
I also love Lisa's book
SAILOR MOO...
|
| janfields |
Very funny
stuff.
|
| janfields |
So...what lies at the
heart of humor?
|
| janfields |
According to Rick
Walton...who has spent a lot of time thinking about
humor...
|
| janfields |
humor is about
surprise...
|
| janfields |
when a surprise is
without threat or promise...it's funny.
|
| janfields |
But the surprise must
be able to be perceived cognitively by the
audience.
|
| janfields |
If you have a surprise
that threatens the audience...it's not funny.
|
| janfields |
And it might be
horror.
|
| janfields |
If you have a surprise
that comes with promise (like surprise, you just won the
lottery)...it's happy but not funny
|
| janfields |
Rick says most people
realize humor is about surprise...
|
| janfields |
but then so is
horror...you have a character slinking through a spooky house...you
expect something bad to happen (threat) but you don't know
when...
|
| janfields |
If then, the character
runs into no ghosts....just say...dog poop...
|
| janfields |
it's still
surprise...but you took away the threat, so it's
funny.
|
| janfields |
But if the character is
dancing around scraping his shoe on the carpet and a werewolf jumps
out and eats him...
|
| janfields |
it's surprising...but
not funny because the threat is back...being eaten is very
bad.
|
| janfields |
Now, I think dark humor
does contain threat and still might make us laugh (as mature
readers)
|
| janfields |
But for readers younger
than teen, threat is not funny.
|
| janfields |
And Rick says that a
surprise that immediately results in something great...like money,
say, or a surprise party.
|
| janfields |
That is startling, but
not funny because the surprise is quickly overcome by the
reward.
|
| janfields |
So surprise with
promise of reward = not funny, because the reward overwhelms the
surprise.
|
| janfields |
Again...this is
affected by the cognitive level of the reader...which brings us to a
question....
|
| janfields |
DAWNLEE: Is some humor
universal and how do we know what level is correct for the age group
we're writing for?
|
| janfields |
The *nature* of
humor...surprise...is universal.
|
| janfields |
Mostly we laugh when we
are surprised by something.
|
| janfields |
When we expect one
thing...and get something else.
|
| janfields |
For a very small child,
the surprise is usually deviation from norm.
|
| janfields |
So a small child would
laugh at Daddy wearing Mommy's apron.
|
| janfields |
If he's never seen
Daddy do it.
|
| janfields |
One reason why
Whatley's WAIT NO PAINT is so funny to young
children
|
| janfields |
is because it lets the
illustrator mess with the character...
|
| janfields |
and that's
surprising...kids know stories are done deals, the illustrator can't
talk to the character.
|
| janfields |
But in Wait No Paint,
the illustrator spills juice on them, paints them paisley and
finally just sticks the characters into hysterical
costumes...
|
| janfields |
and says they're in the
middle of Goldilocks and the Three Bears.
|
| janfields |
The sight of the Big
Bad Wolf in a Goldilocks wig and girlie dress makes young children
laugh themselves silly.
|
| janfields |
But, very young
children cannot handle the cognitive skill to find humor based on
word play funny.
|
| janfields |
Steve Mooser said he
did a series of books for Scholastic about a superhero named FUNNY
MAN
|
| janfields |
Who always defeated the
villain by telling jokes.
|
| janfields |
Much of the humor was
based on wordplay.
|
| janfields |
When Mooser did his
first school visit, he discovered FUNNYMAN was not
funny
|
| janfields |
to it's target audience
-- preschool and kindergarten.
|
| janfields |
Even first graders
didn't get a lot of the jokes.
|
| janfields |
So eventually...the
series died and I think it's all out of print now.
|
| janfields |
Now Mooser does series
books for school aged readers -- and they laugh.
|
| janfields |
They get the humor
cognitively.
|
| janfields |
School aged kids still
like surprise, but they also like the surprise of manipulating
words...
|
| janfields |
tricking people with
words.
|
| janfields |
As well as the
unexpected...like teachers who are vampires...or poor Marvin Redpost
who thinks he saw space ships.
|
| janfields |
Teen, on the other
hand, are much harder to surprise.
|
| janfields |
They tend to laugh
based on VOICE.
|
| janfields |
When a character is
outrageous.
|
| janfields |
When the character says
the thinks teens secretly think...it's funny.
|
| janfields |
And when the character
thinks fast and give the quick quip...teens love
it.
|
| janfields |
They like advanced word
play and dry, dry humor.
|
| janfields |
And they are capable of
laughing at very dark humor too.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes humor that I
can't get.
|
| janfields |
For example, many teen
boys find M.T.Anderson's Burger Wuss really funny.
|
| janfields |
But the main character
is so pitiful that I feel sorry for him.
|
| janfields |
I feel the wrong
response...and I think it's because I'm too old.
|
| janfields |
Mine is the mom
response, not the peer response.
|
| janfields |
Now, does anyone in the
studio audience have a question...
|
| janfields |
before I go one to
reveal...
|
| janfields |
Steven Moosers
secrets...
|
| janfields |
muwahahaha
|
| jolie |
please give example of
dark humor that teens will love.
|
| janfields |
Okay...let's imagine
that my little scenero about the kid in the dark, creepy house was a
teen story.
|
| janfields |
The teen would laugh
histerically at the main character stepping in the big pile of
poop...because...well, they like poop humor still.
|
| janfields |
Then when the werewolf
jumps out and eats the kid...if he then poops...you're going to have
a teen audience laughing hysterically.
|
| janfields |
Because now we know the
source of the poop.
|
| janfields |
What they THOUGHT was
harmless...was in fact a clue to the ultimate horrible
thing.
|
| janfields |
A big surprise...and
one removed from their own experience (they aren't in danger of
being eaten by werewolves)...
|
| janfields |
so it's
funny.
|
| janfields |
Now...Coloradokate
wanted to know about edgy humor for teen
magazines...
|
| janfields |
Teen magazines are
massively less edgy than teen book publishers...
|
| janfields |
So you cannot go nearly
as far in edgy humor.
|
| janfields |
But you can have teen
finding humor in dark moments.
|
| janfields |
For example...after my
mom died, my sister and I tried to have our first family
Thanksgiving with she and I in charge of the food.
|
| janfields |
My mom had
never...um...shared the kitchen well.
|
| janfields |
So Crissie and I did
the meal and while we were cleaning up...
|
| janfields |
I ALMOST dropped my
mom's very special TURKEY PLATTER...
|
| janfields |
My sister said..."Don't
drop that Mom will KILL YOU."
|
| janfields |
Then...almost
immediately she said. "Oh, right, it's okay cause she's
dead."
|
| janfields |
Now...we weren't happy
that mom was dead...we missed her a lot.
|
| janfields |
But you could put
something like that scene in a teen story and the teen readers would
laugh.
|
| janfields |
Because they would
inherently know we didn't really want mom to be
dead...
|
| janfields |
And they would be very
close to the idea that certain things can get your mom to kill
you...
|
| janfields |
then the relief of
knowing you're safe...but it's a black humor kind of
relief.
|
| janfields |
So...teen humor, edgy,
but at the same time...not as edgy as books.
|
| jolie |
edgy humor, kinda like
fag jokes?
|
| janfields |
No teen magazine would
tough a fag joke...because it's not funny if you're
gay.
|
| janfields |
And they're pretty
sensitive about that.
|
| janfields |
BUT a teen book might
have fag jokes...
|
| janfields |
especially if being gay
is integral to the story.
|
| janfields |
Geography Club, for
example, has a lot of fag jokes.
|
| janfields |
But they really aren't
so much played to be funny...though the book does have some darkly
funny moments.
|
| caq |
Is writing humor
something that comes naturally to people who write humorous stories
or do some of the authors of humorous stories learn it (doesn't come
naturally)?
|
| janfields |
I think it's a
mix.
|
| janfields |
Steve Mooser, for
example, said he's learned a lot about writing humor that
works.
|
| janfields |
He knew what kinds of
things made him laugh...and he used that.
|
| janfields |
But it took time to
learn what kinds of things make other people
laugh...
|
| janfields |
and
why.
|
| janfields |
There's a book I am
totally blanking on at the moment...
|
| janfields |
Oh..got it. DUSTIN
GRUBBS...
|
| janfields |
It's got a very funny
scene in it with a grandmother and dentures...
|
| janfields |
both of which are
terribly cliche...but in that scene it works so
perfectly.
|
| janfields |
Anyway...I chatted up
the author and he said he just writes the kinds of things that make
him laugh.
|
| janfields |
I think you can do that
if you're writing middle grade and YA.
|
| janfields |
To an
extent...understanding that they just aren't going to be amused by
marriage jokes, or other geezer topics.
|
| jolie |
no kidding, they actually
publish fag jokes?
|
| janfields |
The fag jokes in the
book were mostly there to show how obtuse the kids
were...
|
| janfields |
and how poorly they
could actually detect a gay kid in their midst.
|
| janfields |
They were published for
the sake of being funny.
|
| janfields |
Motley asks of the
books already mentioned, are any specifically for per-teens, maybe
like for 10 - 12 years?
|
| janfields |
DUSTIN GRUBBS is for
the age group.
|
| janfields |
NO MORE DEAD DOGS is as
well...Korman is very funny.
|
| janfields |
M.T.Anderson is doing
humor for that age...with his Amazing Stories
tales.
|
| janfields |
Um...Whales on Stilts
was the first one.
|
| janfields |
HOLES by Louis Sacher
has a LOT of dark humor and is for the preteen through teen
reader.
|
| janfields |
So is
HOOT.
|
| janfields |
They both work for that
age group, though I honestly think they are funnier to boy readers
than girls.
|
| janfields |
Though they are very
interesting for both.
|
| leanna |
Childrens Writer contest
wanted hummor for 7-10, example?
|
| janfields |
Kids 7 - 10 thrive on
the unexpected for humor.
|
| janfields |
Tall Tales are very
funny for that age group.
|
| janfields |
The McBroom series
(which is very old) is that kind of story.
|
| janfields |
Also, they like humor
based on being clever or tricky.
|
| janfields |
I just read a great
story in a SPIDER magazine that takes place at a Thanksgiving family
gathering.
|
| janfields |
The Mom asks her kids
to go get the turkey.
|
| janfields |
And some cousins assume
she expects them to go catch a turkey.
|
| janfields |
So they play along and
take the cousins on a kind of snipe hunt.
|
| janfields |
And in the end, we find
out she wanted them to fetch the Turkey
centerpiece.
|
| janfields |
So...that kind of humor
really cracks up that age group.
|
| janfields |
Incongruity still
cracks up that age group...like going to school...
|
| janfields |
and finding out your
grandma is the substitute teacher...
|
| janfields |
and she keeps doing
embarrassing things.
|
| janfields |
Kids would think that's
funny...though you would have to wrap it up happy in the
end.
|
| caq |
Doesn't perspective of or
who is being humorous make a difference? For example a child in a
wheelchair may crack a joke about it, and I have heard them, but
that same thing said by a child not in a wheelchair might come off
as insulting.
|
| janfields |
Yes, it does...it's
okay to laugh at your group as long as you're in
it.
|
| janfields |
And I've seen that in
books.
|
| janfields |
I've seen the gay
character make jokes about how gay kids are...
|
| janfields |
And black characters
make jokes about how blacks are...
|
| janfields |
You do have to be
careful...because although your character may be of the in
group...
|
| janfields |
if you are not...you
can sometimes find a load of criticism rains down on
you.
|
| caq |
I know you can't do homor
that is forced, it has to be part of the story itself, so, creating
strong characters would be a necessity wouldn't it. One that is
humorous so it isn't just jokes, but circumstance that is
humorous?
|
| janfields |
For the middle grade
years and the early reader years...you can practically just string
jokes together.
|
| janfields |
I read a couple books
about Freddie and the French Fries
|
| janfields |
by David Baldacchi (I
know I spelled that wrong)
|
| janfields |
Anyway...they have
almost nonexistant plots.
|
| janfields |
And they just string
lame jokes together.
|
| janfields |
And yet some kids like
them (though he got published based on his name so I'm NOT saying WE
could get away with that.)
|
| janfields |
The first one sold a
lot...but it got an incredible push from the
publisher
|
| janfields |
Because the author is
hot stuff in adult books...
|
| janfields |
So, it's hard to really
expand that to say books that are just jokes sell.
|
| janfields |
But I know Dave Pilkey
did some readers with a dragon in them.
|
| janfields |
And each "chapter" of
these little books is really just an extended joke.
|
| janfields |
And they sell
great.
|
| dell |
Barbara Kanninen has a
couple articles on her web site on how to write funny:
http://barbarakanninen.com/for_writers
|
| janfields |
Thanks...I shall have
to read them.
|
| caq |
Is the structure of a
humorous MG book differenct than an adventure?
|
| janfields |
Most humor books are
ALSO an adventure...
|
| janfields |
Or a mystery (like the
Chet Gecko books)...
|
| janfields |
Or a love story (like
the bulk of the chick lit novels)
|
| janfields |
So the humor is
happening within a traditional framework.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes certain
things about the expect framework are tampered
with...
|
| janfields |
to strengthen the
humor.
|
| janfields |
But even then, you
usually recognize the bones.
|
| janfields |
Leanna says SUCH
AS
|
| janfields |
Such as making the bad
guy kind of obvious in the Gecko books.
|
| janfields |
For a straight mystery
to work..
|
| janfields |
the reader really
shouldn't figure out the bad guy right away.
|
| janfields |
But if your REAL goal
is to make the reader laugh.
|
| janfields |
The "traditional"
aspect is less important...the book will work even if the reader
guesses the bad guy.
|
| janfields |
In the "family story" I
mentioned from SPIDER...
|
| janfields |
traditionally a family
story needs a strong theme...
|
| janfields |
something that shows
growth and change.
|
| janfields |
But the story about the
turkey centerpiece had ZERO growth and change.
|
| janfields |
It was just for
laughs...so that important aspect you would normally get was set
aside because the humor superceded it.
|
| janfields |
Okay...It's ten on my
clock.
|
| janfields |
Hey, that was
fun!
|
| dell |
Don't forget to share
Mooser's secrets.... :)
|
| janfields |
Dang, I didn't get to
spill many of Mooser's secrets...
|
| janfields |
though I did weave them
in a bit...
|
| janfields |
such as how well tall
tales work for middle grade.
|
| janfields |
And how incongruity is
always funny to that age group.
|
| janfields |
I'll have to spill more
secrets another time...I can't keep a secret...it'll all come
out.
|
| janfields |
Thanks for
coming.
|