| janfields |
Join us tonight in the
AUDITORIUM-Scheduled Events Room for Open Forum. Tonight's topic is
TWEENS. Come and join in five minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Tonight's Open Forum on
the topic of "Tweens" will begin shortly. While you wait for chat to
begin, feel free to use your ASK A QUESTION button RIGHT BETWEEN THE
YELLOW “MAP” AND THE RED QUESTION MARK IN ICHAT to post some
questions or comments on selling stories and articles for tweens,
changes in the tween magazines or researching what's hot for tweens.
Chat will begin two minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Hi, and welcome to
Friday Night Open Forum. I'm your host/moderator, Jan Fields -- and
we're here to chat about Tweens. If you want to ask a question or
make a comment and be sure I see it and that it makes it all the way
to transcript...you'll need to use either the "ask a question"
button on the bar across the middle of your screen. OR type a
backslash / followed immediately by the word ask...then space once
and type your question. That passes the question to me and I can
post it. Now, let's get going.
|
| janfields |
Tweens are the "big
kids" -- aged 9 to 12 (though sometimes 13 year olds consume tween
products as well.) Marketing folks are realizing these kids picture
themselves as being more like teens than little kids -- and they
spend like teens. So, publishing (especially magazine publishing) is
waking up to this powerful growing market.
|
| janfields |
In publishing, there
are two distinctly different approaches to tweens.
|
| janfields |
Tween magazines LOOK
like teen magazines...but much of the teen-ness is in
looks.
|
| janfields |
The content of tween
magazines is still focused on family and
friendless.
|
| janfields |
Dating, and boys are
still pretty taboo in tweens...though some magazines will talk about
"crushes"
|
| janfields |
But those are
long-distance crushes, not dating relationships.
|
| janfields |
Tween books though tend
to go a bit further...
|
| janfields |
they are the territory
of the first kiss...and the first boy-girl dance...
|
| janfields |
hand-holding and "going
together"
|
| janfields |
Though you still won't
see anything distantly like real sexual content as you see in YA
novels.
|
| janfields |
So...let's catch a few
of my pre-asks on tweens...
|
| janfields |
MOLLY: There have
always been kids 10 - 12, so what's changed about
it?
|
| janfields |
Today, kids 10 - 12 see
themselves as mature, as nearly teens.
|
| janfields |
Just as teens have
cranked up their view of themselves, maturity wise, tweens have
caught some of that as the trickle down.
|
| janfields |
Tweens today tend to
question parental involvement in clothing choices and things like
body piercing.
|
| janfields |
Which used to be very
teen topics.
|
| janfields |
But tweens are still at
the crossroads...they want to dress like teens...
|
| janfields |
but they really don't
want teen relationships/dating.
|
| janfields |
And tweens have a lot
more cash than they did in the past.
|
| janfields |
And make many more of
their own choices without parental involvement.
|
| janfields |
Some publishers want to
cash in on that, so you'll see novels that are teen-ish-middle
grades.
|
| janfields |
And you'll see some
subjects that can look pretty edgy.
|
| janfields |
Totally Joe, for
example, by James Howe is a tween novel about being
gay.
|
| janfields |
But the novel itself is
still pretty tame...the most daring thing the kids imagine doing is
holding hands.
|
| janfields |
While Georgraphy Club
is a YA novel covering similar ground for teens...
|
| janfields |
and the detail is much
further along the relationships road with lots of
contact...
|
| janfields |
and lots of talk about
sex.
|
| janfields |
So similar topics...but
the tween approach is different.
|
| janfields |
ritrbiz: What are tween
magazines?
|
| janfields |
Technically, any
magazine targeting kids from 9 - 12 is trying to reach the tween age
group.
|
| janfields |
But some like Hopscotch
or Pockets still keep the approach very child...holding onto
childhood.
|
| janfields |
While other magazines
go further in looking at the kids as young young
adults.
|
| janfields |
The TWEEN magazines are
Girl's Life (now packaged as GL)
|
| janfields |
American Girl (which
has change tremendously in the last few years)
|
| janfields |
Discovery Girls (very
teen look, but much younger content.)
|
| janfields |
The teen-ish elements
are things like quizzes and fashion.
|
| janfields |
Much of the fashion
mirrors teen fashions...though slightly less
daring.
|
| janfields |
Molly: Is the tween
thing that same for girls and boys?
|
| janfields |
No...for boys, the
tween scene is very much with the Hi Interest
Novel.
|
| janfields |
That means short novels
with easy-ish vocabulary...
|
| janfields |
lots of
action.
|
| janfields |
Fast pace...lots of
white space on the page.
|
| janfields |
For the reluctant
reader boy who probably reads a year or two below his age
group.
|
| janfields |
But who is interested
in extreme sports, the outdoors, video games...
|
| janfields |
teen-boy
activities...without the girls.
|
| janfields |
Tween boy magazine stay
TOTALLY away from girls.
|
| janfields |
And tween boy books
only touch on the first crush thing if mixed with a LOT of
humor.
|
| janfields |
Tween boy books, in
fact, thrive on humor...and much of it a bit
pottyish.
|
| janfields |
DURINDA: I thought the
ten and up were the ones reading young adult books and
magazines.
|
| janfields |
Yeah, strong readers
from ten and up ARE reading young adult.
|
| janfields |
Which is part of the
reason tweens is becoming a viable market...kids that age want some
of the stuff of young adult.
|
| janfields |
The voice, the
teen-ish-ness...
|
| janfields |
but parents would
prefer they avoid the overt sexual content that is part of a lot of
teen girl novels (especially teen chic lit)
|
| janfields |
So we see young
YA...books like BRAS AND BROOMSTICKS...
|
| janfields |
that has an interest in
boys...
|
| janfields |
but pretty much sticks
to looking at them...
|
| janfields |
sighing a
lot...
|
| janfields |
maybe hoping the crush
will ask you to the first boy-girl dance.
|
| janfields |
That sort of
thing.
|
| janfields |
ritrbiz: What's the
tween thing supposed to mean to me? Should I change how I
write?
|
| janfields |
No...because there are
plenty of normal middle grade books being
published...
|
| janfields |
and plenty of normal
middle grade magazines...
|
| janfields |
but understanding the
trends can help you avoid submitting to
publishers...
|
| janfields |
that are going in a
direction you don't want to go...
|
| janfields |
or may help you select
for those publishers who are going exactly where you want to
go.
|
| janfields |
DURINDA: So, tween
think of themselves as almost teens -- but what are unacceptable
subjects for tween magazines?
|
| janfields |
Some tween magazines
(Girls Life for example) have touched on some edgy
subjects...
|
| janfields |
like shoplifting and
self-mutilation...
|
| janfields |
but they do so from a
very personal...very help you get out viewpoint...
|
| janfields |
and they address things
like that very carefully.
|
| janfields |
Because they know how
quickly parents will cancel subscriptions if they see something they
don't like.
|
| janfields |
So...only try something
edgy is you are VERY familiar with the magazine.
|
| janfields |
In fact, familiarity
helps for all of these because the difference
|
| janfields |
between the three big
tween magazines is huge.
|
| janfields |
American Girl can get a
little didactic...
|
| janfields |
While GL is the most
edgy of the three...
|
| janfields |
and Discovery Girls is
very wholesome but fun over teachy.
|
| janfields |
BOOMER: Is there any
difference in approach to a tween story for magazines and
books?
|
| janfields |
For books, you really
HAVE to have boy/girl relationships of some sort...
|
| janfields |
because tween girls
think about that stuff a lot...
|
| janfields |
tween boys less
so.
|
| janfields |
For magazines
though...focus on friendships, not crushes.
|
| janfields |
And family
relationships in tween magazine stories are usually good with the
parents...
|
| janfields |
and borderline warfare
with siblings.
|
| janfields |
While family
relationships in tween books tend to have more parent/kid
conflict.
|
| dianna |
You listed 3 girl
oriented mags for tweens, are there any for boy
'tweens?
|
| janfields |
There have been a lot
of magazines TRIED for tween boys.
|
| janfields |
And magazines like BOYS
LIFE certainly invcludes that readership
|
| janfields |
but overall, publishers
are having trouble catching that reader in magazine
format.
|
| janfields |
EXCEPT in things like
comic books...
|
| janfields |
Tween
boys...overall...are a huge consumer of comic books
|
| janfields |
and graphic novels
right now.
|
| janfields |
But I don't know of a
single sucessful boy tween magazine...so for magazines, it's
strictly a girl phenomenon.
|
| janfields |
Okay...that empties my
que at the halfway point.
|
| janfields |
If you have any tween
questions...do ask.
|
| janfields |
And I also throw the
door open to off-topic questions...
|
| janfields |
so if you gots
questions on any topic...fire away.
|
| janfields |
Oh, I have an old
off-topic...I'll hit it for the que...
|
| inky |
I have a
fiction/non-fiction series Eddie the Eagle, the eagle flies
everywhere from the Grand Canyon to Alaska and beyond revealing
pieces of history along the way. Any ideas for where to send it or
does it sound like been there done that?
|
| janfields |
Inky, a book series
that mixes fiction and nonfiction can be a very tough
sell...
|
| janfields |
because it's a tough
marketing problem.
|
| janfields |
Nonfiction's biggest
market is libraries...
|
| janfields |
and libraries don't
know what to do with hybrids.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes you can get a
packager interested...
|
| janfields |
And, of course, if the
writing is REALLY brilliant...no rules apply...
|
| janfields |
But overall, that would
be a tough series to sell because there are so many books on the
states...
|
| janfields |
facts and history and
such...
|
| janfields |
that folks would
question whether they need one more...especially one that blends
like that.
|
| dianna |
The only 'tween boy I
have observed closley is my own son. I notice that he talks about
girls & sports, but reads about horses & war. It this fairly
typical of the market?
|
| janfields |
Yeah, it's pretty
typical.
|
| janfields |
Tween reader boys TEND
to be heavily nonfiction readers for books.
|
| janfields |
Though, as I said, many
really get into the visual formats of graphic novels and
comics...
|
| janfields |
because they have so
much action.
|
| pjhausman |
You mentioned tween vs
"normal" middle grade writing; what's the
difference?
|
| janfields |
What I would consider
"normal" middle grade tends to not try for that sarcastic, hip,
voice that you see so popular in teen lit...
|
| janfields |
and that tween lit is
trying to emulate...
|
| janfields |
"Normal" middle grade
tends not to be so absorbed with coolness...
|
| janfields |
and you often see less
pop references.
|
| janfields |
But the storylines are
not so different...though middle grade usually avoids any kind of
romance angle
|
| janfields |
even the crush type
romance.
|
| gonewest |
Tweens - Is talking about
blended family problems ok?
|
| janfields |
Oh yeah...that's a
major great topic for Tweens...family in general.
|
| janfields |
Tweens are both hanging
onto their families and worried about change
|
| janfields |
And striving for the
independence they feel they deserve
|
| janfields |
And family really is a
big part of that...so a blended family story would really fit
in.
|
| janfields |
If it's a magazine
story, I tell you who likes that kind of thing -- American
Girl.
|
| janfields |
I read two years worth
of their fiction now and they are seriously into family
relationships...working them out
|
| blondepsycho |
QUESTION I'm having
problems with effective transitions (ie..flashbacks, etc...) what
would be the most effective way of doing that in a novel with many
flashbacks, without losing the reader?
|
| janfields |
Ah...in YA novels you
can flashback all over the place...
|
| janfields |
same as you would in
adult novels...young adults like that kind of
complexity.
|
| janfields |
The problem lies in not
confusing YOU...
|
| janfields |
since it can be tough
to hold onto the "now" of the story.
|
| janfields |
You will have to move
in and out of flashbacks very clearly.
|
| janfields |
Make sure the flashback
is being triggered by something logical...
|
| janfields |
so many flashbacks just
HAPPEN because a character sits still for a
minute...
|
| janfields |
but if you're going to
flashback a lot, the reader needs to know that something is
triggering that makes sense...like a seeing a photo, or
something
|
| janfields |
And the object triggers
the flashback.
|
| janfields |
Use time transitions
clearly...something like "Just last year, his father had insisted he
add more and more activities. Dan remembered that fight they'd
had...blah blah...
|
| janfields |
Then when you return
from the flashback, again...use a time
transition...
|
| janfields |
Now, sitting in the
same kitchen chair, Dan would love to have one more fight with his
dad...
|
| janfields |
To help YOU keep track
of all the flashbacks and what happens when...
|
| janfields |
and what is the NOW of
the story...you might try making yourself a time line for all the
parts.
|
| janfields |
WWTB asks how young a
sexually active protagonist can be.
|
| janfields |
If you have a sexually
active protagonist, you're going to get marketed as Young
Adult
|
| janfields |
Shelved with
teens.
|
| janfields |
And reviewed as a teen
book.
|
| janfields |
And teens can be
persnickity about how young a character they can relate
to...
|
| janfields |
So you're probably
looking at 15 at the YOUNGEST (in a normal-ish kid with a normalish
life).
|
| janfields |
If you go much younger
than that, you're really going to have trouble finding a
publisher.
|
| janfields |
Really, if you stay 16
and older, you're in the safest territory.
|
| pjhausman |
Where do young teens -
13,14 - fit in? (They often seem more like tweens than like
16-17-year-olds.)
|
| janfields |
That's the age that is
reading the bulk of the Young Adult fiction.
|
| janfields |
It's very hard to find
older teens reading teen material.
|
| janfields |
It's almost like the
age range for teen stuff is 10 - 14 and 28+
|
| janfields |
Older teens like to
read adult stuff...except for some of the crossover
genre...
|
| janfields |
some of the dark
fantasy and some of the chick lit is catching older
teens.
|
| janfields |
But a lot of the very
edgy teen stuff is being read by those very young
teens.
|
| blondepsycho |
What about sexual abuse
issues? Is there a certain way to address the issue in Twwen or YA
books?
|
| janfields |
Sexual abuse is
something you can see very much in Young Adult
books.
|
| janfields |
It's harder with
preteens.
|
| janfields |
I've seen it, but it
has to be handled so subtly that sometimes I get a little confused
about what the writer is hinting at.
|
| janfields |
I have honestly NOT
known a scene was supposed to be about sexual molestation until I
read the review...I've seen books that were that
subtle.
|
| janfields |
Middle grade/tweens
simply aren't really an age group for very frank discussion about
sex...
|
| janfields |
Though now in the young
chick lit-type books, you'll get some sexual, flirty bantering and
talk about girls and what they might be doing...
|
| janfields |
but you wont actually
see anyone doing it.
|
| janfields |
In YA...you might get
really specific details about what they are doing.
|
| janfields |
And to
whom
|
| janfields |
So...back to no
questions.
|
| janfields |
Wanna see me
dance?
|
| janfields |
It ain't pretty...ya
gotta trust me on this.
|
| janfields |
Hey, guys, ya wanna
hear something kinda neat that might happen?
|
| janfields |
Sure you
do.
|
| janfields |
I tried out for a
series a long time ago...well over a year.
|
| janfields |
And I just heard that
the series had been on hiatus.
|
| janfields |
And NOW they are
considering doing it...and they LOVE my work.
|
| janfields |
So...if they pick it
up...I get to be the author of all the books.
|
| janfields |
Wanna touch
me?
|
| janfields |
Oh wow...now I got
questions...and thanks guys for the happy with me.
|
| lorib |
Hi jan- I'm new to the
ICL course - Is it ok have my characters calling their siblings
names like idiot or whimp ? that s how my siblings talked
lol
|
| janfields |
It's okay in books,
magazines won't buy it.
|
| janfields |
Sorry.
|
| janfields |
You should have HEARD
the stuff my brother called me.
|
| janfields |
The most "awful" thing
I've ever gotten by an editor is the lines "You're so bossy" and
You're just a brat"
|
| janfields |
And they were said in
the heat of the moment and ONLY sold because the girls made
up.
|
| janfields |
Awww.
|
| blondepsycho |
I heard the dark, gloomy
stuff like sexual abuse issues and pahysical abuse issues are hard
to sell.....is that true? and why?
|
| janfields |
Dang, I've seen some
really gloomy books for YA.
|
| janfields |
It's nigh onto
impossible in magazines...you have to have an up
ending.
|
| janfields |
But I've see YA that
ends with a girl shooting her boyfriend...so not so up, ya
know?
|
| janfields |
But the key now is to
make sure you're not doing some kind of high end morality
play.
|
| janfields |
Because that doesn't
sell so well in teen novels.
|
| janfields |
Nonns...tween ARTICLES
that are hot now...
|
| janfields |
How-to -- especially
decorating
|
| janfields |
Mini room make-overs
that kids can do on their own.
|
| janfields |
That kind of thing is
blistering hot.
|
| janfields |
Quizzes...tween
magazines consume 2+ quizzes a month.
|
| janfields |
They need to be
funny
|
| janfields |
And reveal "truth" in a
funny way.
|
| janfields |
The quiz "results" can
actually be pretty didactic but the questions need to be
funny.
|
| janfields |
And
unusual.
|
| janfields |
Profiles are
big...especially girls making a difference on a grand
scale.
|
| janfields |
Those are probably the
three hotest.
|
| janfields |
But the thing editors
have told me they would like to have and never get
|
| janfields |
is more articles on
technology for girls.
|
| pjhausman |
What's "some kind of high
end morality play"?
|
| janfields |
Where everyone comes to
a horrible end and you know (as the reader) that's it's because they
did bad stuff...
|
| janfields |
so you never never want
to do that kind of stuff.
|
| janfields |
The most popular type
of this story...
|
| janfields |
and editors of books
and magazines say this is their NUMBER ONE story plot
submitted.
|
| janfields |
Is the kid who drinks,
drives, kills everyone but herself...and now has to live with how
horrible that feels.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes that comes
with confrontation with the parents of the other kids...sometimes
not.
|
| janfields |
Drinking and driving
are good things to deal with...but you got to do it in a totally new
way...
|
| janfields |
and be
subtle.
|
| dianna |
please define:
didactic
|
| janfields |
A didactic story is one
written primarily to teach.
|
| janfields |
Most of the time, they
have the "moral of the story" stated SOMEWHERE...
|
| jolie |
How do these mags handle
drugs, pot, for example
|
| janfields |
Teen magazines do deal
with articles on pot and drugs...
|
| janfields |
ALMOST ALWAYS these
things are written in first person
|
| janfields |
from the viewpoint of a
teen who got involved with these things...
|
| janfields |
and began to see some
bad results (sometimes REALLY bad results)
|
| janfields |
and is in the process
of turning her life around.
|
| janfields |
In fiction stories, you
don't see those topics quite as much in teen
magazine
|
| janfields |
because it's so hard to
slip them into a story within the short word counts of magazine
fiction
|
| janfields |
without ending up with
a very preachy feel to the story.
|
| janfields |
If you CAN do
it...editors would certainly be interested.
|
| janfields |
And that's the
hour.
|
| janfields |
Hey, thanks for asking
more questions.
|
| janfields |
Makes me feel
useful.
|