| janfields |
Join us this afternoon
in the AUDITORIUM- for an exciting Open Forum with web editor, Jan
Fields. Today's Topic is "Agents." Bring your QUESTIONS to this open
forum—in five minutes.
|
| janfields |
Today's Open Forum Chat
will begin promptly at 3pm Atlantic/CANADA, 2pm Eastern, 1pm
Central, noon Mountain, and 11am Pacific. While you wait for the
Open Forum to start, feel free to use your ASK A QUESTION button
RIGHT BETWEEN THE YELLOW “MAP” AND THE RED QUESTION MARK IN ICHAT to
post some questions for discussion in chat -- open forum begins two
minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Call me OZ, the great
and powerful :-)
|
| janfields |
Hi! Welcome to Open
Forum. Today's Topic is "Agents." I'm your moderator, Jan Fields.
I've been writing for money for over 20 years and I had a very fine
agent for a year and a half. Plus, I know a few agents. So let's
talk about when you need an agent, why you might want an agent, and
how to get the agent who works best for you.
|
| janfields |
As always...I will try
to watch the conversation in the room with you...
|
| janfields |
but I will best see and
answer a question IF you use the "ask a question" icon on the center
bar of your screen.
|
| janfields |
Because I can only
multi-task just so well...
|
| janfields |
meaning...not so well
at all.
|
| janfields |
Wow...let's get
going.
|
| janfields |
Paula: Do you need an
agent if you are strictly working in the magazine
market?
|
| janfields |
Magazine writers don't
need agents.
|
| janfields |
Some of the high end
magazines -- especially those for teens...
|
| janfields |
will accept material
sent by an agent...
|
| janfields |
but they don't require
it.
|
| janfields |
And agents normally
only deal with magazines when they are pushing...
|
| janfields |
writers to do a lot of
submitting in advance of a novel coming out..
|
| janfields |
to get your name before
your target audience.
|
| janfields |
Now...when I got my
agent, I was basically a magazine writer.
|
| janfields |
Which hurt my agent
terribly.
|
| janfields |
But I had written a
picture book and was submitting it in a totally unorganized
manner.
|
| janfields |
And not selling it
(wow, bit surprise)
|
| janfields |
Someone told me that
Scott Tremiel responded to all submissions with a
critique.
|
| janfields |
So I
thought...cool...he can tell me what's wrong with the dratted
thing.
|
| janfields |
Instread he offered to
be my agent.
|
| janfields |
And he worked
diligently to sell my odd little picture book...in the
end
|
| janfields |
he did not...that
happens.
|
| lilyphenix |
what exactly is an
agent?
|
| lilyphenix |
How does an agent
work?
|
| janfields |
An agent's job is to
represent your work in the publishing marketplace.
|
| janfields |
He presents it to
potential buyers (publishers)
|
| janfields |
He makes the actual
deal...working to get you the best terms.
|
| janfields |
And he gets a
cut.
|
| janfields |
Afterwards...he markets
auxiliary rights to continue to get money.
|
| janfields |
And he nags the crap
out of you to write other books.
|
| janfields |
Oh...and no...Scott did
not remain my agent.
|
| janfields |
I didn't have another
book to sell at the time.
|
| janfields |
Since...I was and am a
magazine writer.
|
| janfields |
When I finally did
another book...I began looking for other agents.
|
| gladys1 |
do writers pay agents
upfront or do they take a cut of the payment for the
manuscript
|
| janfields |
Writers DO NOT pay
legitimate agents UP FRONT.
|
| janfields |
Period.
|
| janfields |
I know SOME agents for
adults have gotten cute with offering a "submission fast track" for
money.
|
| janfields |
Quite frankly...that
stinks.
|
| janfields |
An agent has a stake in
getting your manuscript published...
|
| janfields |
he is "betting" on his
ability to do so...
|
| janfields |
If we remove the
incentive...by paying the agent up front...we lessen his need to
market aggressively.
|
| janfields |
And most agents who do
charge...don't sell...or don't sell very often...and certainly don't
sell to prestigious publishers.
|
| janfields |
Writersblock, I pretty
much gave Scott forever because (1) I knew he was agressively
marketing...
|
| janfields |
2. I knew the picture
book market was tough.
|
| janfields |
3. He sent me all the
rejection letters and the feedback was very
helpful.
|
| janfields |
He had great contacts
so I didn't think a different agent would do any
better.
|
| janfields |
The issue was the
product...not the agent.
|
| southpaw |
Hi Jan that's awesome
that you found such a hard working agent. How do you approach an
agent? Any special advice?
|
| janfields |
Most agents have
guidelines.
|
| janfields |
If not, you can find
out the submission preferences of most agents in the Children's
Writers and Illustrators Martket
|
| janfields |
Which is put out by
Writers Digest books.
|
| janfields |
And is PROBABLY carried
in the reference department of your local public
library.
|
| janfields |
The agent section is
maybe ten pages...you can zip over, photocopy them, and scurry
home.
|
| janfields |
Back when I couldn't
afford such extravegence as buying a new market guide...I did
that.
|
| janfields |
For picture books, MOST
agents want the full manuscript and a cover letter.
|
| janfields |
But KNOW this...many
children's agents don't rep picture books right
now.
|
| janfields |
Because the market is
soft.
|
| janfields |
For middle grade and YA
novels, most agents want a query letter.
|
| janfields |
If you send by snail
mail, you can usually slip in the first ten pages or first
chapter.
|
| janfields |
If sending via email,
don't add anything they don't ask for.
|
| janfields |
It annoys them...and
it's oh so easy to delete email.
|
| bouncingball |
Do you mean it hurt your
agent's feelings or it hurt them financially, regarding magazine
submission?
|
| janfields |
Agents would ALWAYS
like you to write books.
|
| janfields |
Magazines don't pay
enough to support both you and an agent.
|
| janfields |
So, if you're a busy
magazine writer -- your agent will nag...cajol...and sometimes just
whine in a really annoying high pitched way.
|
| janfields |
Trust
me.
|
| janfields |
Not
fun.
|
| lilyphenix |
Hello Jan! Where do we
look for an agent?
|
| janfields |
The list in the
Children's Writers and Illustrators Market is good --
solid.
|
| janfields |
You can also google
AAR...the something Author's Representatives.
|
| janfields |
Anyway, they have an
agent list that tells what each agent accepts.
|
| janfields |
Very few will be
children's agents...
|
| janfields |
but most that are
should be reputable.
|
| janfields |
I also find new agent
names simply by being part of writing lists, discussion boards, and
going to conferences.
|
| janfields |
Then I can find out
what agents are like.
|
| janfields |
Also, some agents have
websites and blogs...though just googling "writing agents" will get
you an impressiv e list of noncredible agents.
|
| janfields |
It's better to go
through vetted lists...or professional discussion
boards.
|
| writerx |
Do agents expect payment
before a book is published?
|
| janfields |
Mostly
not.
|
| janfields |
A very few
agents...
|
| janfields |
will bill back courier
services AFTER the service has been used.
|
| janfields |
In an itemized
list.
|
| janfields |
And it won't be large
amounts of money and you should ALSO get a copy of the editor's
reply to the submission.
|
| janfields |
That's not standard but
some one-man agencies do it that way because they just can't float
expenses
|
| janfields |
as long as the big
agencies can.
|
| janfields |
But if an agent ask for
an upfront "deposit" from which they will draw for expenses -- don't
go for it.
|
| janfields |
I don't know a SINGLE
legitimate agent who does that.
|
| writersblock |
If you revised your PB MS
that didn't sell, would you be . .
|
| writersblock |
obliged to try Scott
again? Or use a different agent?
|
| janfields |
No...though in one
special case...
|
| janfields |
Scott sent the
manuscript to Harper Collins...
|
| janfields |
Phoebe Yeh really liked
it.
|
| janfields |
But wanted it cut by
50%
|
| janfields |
Scott felt like that
was a bad idea...though I actually did the revision and he liked
it...
|
| janfields |
but he decided he
didn't want to submit to Harper Collins for some
reason.
|
| janfields |
Once we parted
company...I sent the shorted manuscript back to
Phoebe...
|
| janfields |
if she had bought
it...I would be "morally" obligated (though not legally) to give
scott a cut
|
| janfields |
because Harper Collins
is a closed house and I would never have been able
to
|
| janfields |
sub to Phoebe in the
first place without him.
|
| janfields |
But anything I do on my
own is mine.
|
| paperback_writer |
Do agents not get paid
then if your book doesn't sell?
|
| janfields |
Nope...agents are out
in the cold just as much as you are if the book doesn't
sell.
|
| janfields |
THOUGH...
|
| janfields |
again in adult
writing...
|
| janfields |
I have heard of agency
agreements that say the agency can bill you
expenses
|
| janfields |
if the book doesn't
sell.
|
| janfields |
I haven't heard of any
children's agents who do that.
|
| janfields |
But they can't just
spring that on you...it's in the agreement or it's not going to
happen.
|
| writersblock |
Why do some editors only
accept submissions through agents?
|
| janfields |
Because it elminates
the slush pile.
|
| janfields |
The slush pile is the
hardest thing for an editor to fit into her day.
|
| janfields |
So if she can eliminate
it...her life gets much easier.
|
| gladys1 |
if a writer wants to sell
a book manuscript should s/he get an agent first
|
| janfields |
I know LOTS of
nonfiction book writers who work steadily without an
agent.
|
| janfields |
I know quite a few
middle grade novel writers who have several books with no
agent.
|
| janfields |
Some writers LIKE
marketing.
|
| janfields |
Some just like the idea
of being in control.
|
| janfields |
Some don't like the
idea of paying someone 15%
|
| janfields |
For whatever reason --
yes, you can sell books without agents.
|
| janfields |
Now, selling YA without
an agent is tougher...but I still know folks doing
it.
|
| janfields |
You may not sell to
Harper Collins (which is good because they do some HORRIBLY author
unfriendly stuff) but you can sell to good houses without
agents.
|
| lilyphenix |
do agents rep early
reader books?
|
| janfields |
Some do...but you would
have to show that you are either (1) prolific
|
| janfields |
or you have a lot of
publishing credits because early readers don't pay so
well.
|
| janfields |
So an agent would have
to know you're going to produce more books.
|
| janfields |
Maybe even a lot of
books...to make it a profitable venture overall.
|
| lilyphenix |
Can you have several
agents? (If you write several genre)
|
| janfields |
Some writers have an
agent for childrens and an agent for adults.
|
| janfields |
But --honestly -- it's
best to just deal with one agent.
|
| janfields |
Makes things
simplier...and you only have to tell one person your excuses on a
regular basis :-)
|
| writersblock |
Can you get an agent
AFTER your book is published? If so, do they automatically get a %
of your previous sales or only sales from the time they become your
agent?
|
| janfields |
Your agent will only
get a cut of books the agent works on.
|
| janfields |
So unless you're asking
your agent to sell rights from previous books..
|
| janfields |
The books won't affect
your agent at all.
|
| janfields |
Plus, you'll need a new
manuscript to interest an agent.
|
| janfields |
The book you just sold
has no profit for an agent.
|
| writersblock |
If you seek out an agent
and then don't like the agreement they send, can you gracefully
decline to have them as your agent? Or should you try to negotiate
the issues in the agreement that you don't agree
with?
|
| janfields |
You can ask the agent
if they will change things you don't like in the
agreement.
|
| janfields |
If the agent does not
wish to do so...yes, it is perfectly acceptable to decline to work
with him/her.
|
| janfields |
You should be 100%
comfortable with an agent to work with that person.
|
| janfields |
Because if the agent
annoys you in the beginning...it will get
worse...really.
|
| gladys1 |
Jan is it really
necessary for a new writer to have a agent and do they really assist
with publication of "our" work
|
| janfields |
There are things I
loved about having an agent...
|
| janfields |
I never ever had to
submit anything...
|
| janfields |
And yet the book was
being submitted constantly...
|
| janfields |
and not submitting in
my somewhat self-depricating manner...it was submitted by a third
party who LOVED it.
|
| janfields |
And he knew the editors
personally...called them...and talked up my book.
|
| janfields |
So...yes, an agent aid
tremendously.
|
| janfields |
Plus, I would not have
had to deal with the contract really...I mean, I would have read
it...I wouldn't go limp
|
| janfields |
But I would know I had
someone who understood contracts and could argue
terms.
|
| janfields |
But you don't HAVE to
have an agent.
|
| janfields |
And some writers deal
with contracts by getting a publishing lawyer to look over
them
|
| janfields |
for an hourly
fee.
|
| janfields |
Which overalll, may be
cheaper than an agent.
|
| janfields |
If you like the control
of handling your own submission process.
|
| bouncingball |
Hi Jan, it's the
Association of Authors' Representatives and this is the URL:
http://www.aar-online.org/mc/page.do
|
| janfields |
Thanks...you're a
peach.
|
| writersblock |
If you don't have an
agent, are editors likely to try to take advantage of you in their
contract terms? Or are they pretty honest in their dealings, over
all?
|
| janfields |
EDITORS won't take
advantage of you.
|
| janfields |
They don't write the
contracts.
|
| janfields |
They don't care what's
in them.
|
| janfields |
They are just the
intermediary who gets poop thrown at them.
|
| janfields |
But...will publishers
take advantage of you?
|
| janfields |
Sure, of
course.
|
| janfields |
They want the best deal
for them...and that is rarely going to be the best deal for
you.
|
| janfields |
But they aren't going
to do anything to kill the book.
|
| janfields |
And they won't steal it
or do anything evil.
|
| janfields |
You'll just end up with
less money, less control, and maybe be in bondage to them for the
next two books...
|
| janfields |
But those are relative
evils to a lot of authors...
|
| janfields |
who just want to get
books in the hands of readers.
|
| dell |
Do agents try to sell mss
to small or mid-size publishing houses after they've exhausted the
big ones?
|
| janfields |
It depends on the
agent...
|
| janfields |
and how long you've
been with them...
|
| janfields |
and how big their
contact pool is.
|
| janfields |
Many agents haven't
cultivated contacts in small publishers.
|
| janfields |
Because there is no
money in it.
|
| janfields |
But some agents will
return the book to you...and then offer to negotiate the contract
for you
|
| janfields |
(for a % of
course)
|
| janfields |
if you do want to sell
to a small publisher on your own.
|
| janfields |
Most small and
mid-sized publishers are accessible to the writer
directly.
|
| janfields |
Basically, though Scott
and I parted quite some time ago...
|
| janfields |
If I sold a book, I
could call him that day and he would step in to negotiate if I
wanted.
|
| janfields |
And he still contacts
me when someone is looking for Work for Hire that would match my
writing.
|
| janfields |
15% is
standard
|
| janfields |
If you did the
selling...and they just need to negotiate...you should talk the %
down.
|
| janfields |
But I doubt you'll get
it lower than 12%
|
| janfields |
Some agents ask for a
higher percentage with a hard to sell work.
|
| janfields |
And most take a higher
percentage of foreign rights sales
|
| janfields |
But never over
20%
|
| cre8 |
What is a reasonable
percentage?
|
| janfields |
Sorry...posted the
answer before the question.
|
| janfields |
I look like the great
Karnac...and the next answer is....
|
| thewriterstuff |
I've published one PB.
Should I consider getting an agent?
|
| janfields |
It
depends...
|
| janfields |
if you have a book
ready to submit RIGHT NOW...
|
| janfields |
then...sure. It might
be good to think about agents.
|
| janfields |
Especially if your
first book did well.
|
| janfields |
If your first book did
not so well, you have a harder time.
|
| janfields |
Right now...it's
actually EASIER to sell a first-time author...
|
| janfields |
Than a repeat author
with poor sales.
|
| janfields |
Even though sales are
often the PUBLISHER'S fault...
|
| janfields |
I have a friend selling
her second book...
|
| janfields |
but her publisher is
pushing hard that it's her FIRST BOOK FOR TEENS
|
| janfields |
Because her other book
was only a mid-list type seller.
|
| dell |
What does the industry
consider 'doing well' or 'good sales?'
|
| loretta |
is there a standard
number for what a pub/agent considers a good sales figure on a PB or
YA?
|
| janfields |
Now, you've got me. I
really stink at numbers.
|
| janfields |
If you sold out your
advance.
|
| janfields |
If you went into a
second printing.
|
| janfields |
If your book got major
book store placement...meaning if you found it about every chain
bookstore you entered.
|
| janfields |
Then you did just
fine...if not...you may be okay, but it'll be less alluring to a
publisher.
|
| gladys1 |
if you have an agent but
sell the book to a small publisher yourself does your agent still
get a %
|
| janfields |
It depends upon the
contract you signed...or the handshake agreement.
|
| janfields |
Some agents will take
on specific projects and let you market everything else
yourself.
|
| janfields |
And ALWAYS...an agent
gets NO MONEY if the agent did NO WORK...
|
| janfields |
But some agents don't
let you do any of your own marketing...
|
| janfields |
so if the agent doesn't
like the book...you have to either shelve it or drop the
agent.
|
| eggamy |
Do have to have
publishing credits to get an agent. is there
|
| eggamy |
advantage to getting
published first?
|
| janfields |
It depend upon the
agent.
|
| janfields |
For
most...no
|
| janfields |
If you can write a VERY
engaging query letter
|
| janfields |
Or if you're a picture
book author and it's good.
|
| janfields |
Agents don't care about
your background...they want the product.
|
| janfields |
But I do know some
agents try to thin their slush piles by saying they only rep
previously published writers.
|
| janfields |
Quite honestly that has
NOTHING to do with anything except trying to cut down the size of
their slush piles.
|
| writersblock |
How do you end a
relationship with an agent? What if you want to end the relationship
but your book is still selling? Should you tough it
out?
|
| janfields |
If an agent sold your
book...that book will almost certainly be tied to that agent for
life.
|
| janfields |
But you can sever ties
with the agent for all future books, if you like.
|
| janfields |
But you can't "cut the
agent" out of the percentages on the work he has already
done.
|
| janfields |
If you signed a
contract with the agent, it will contain directions for "getting
out"
|
| janfields |
If not...you can simply
tell the agent that you don't want to be his/her client
anymore.
|
| janfields |
It's not a comfortable
process. And agents don't like being rejected any more than regular
folks.
|
| janfields |
But if you're
professional...most of the time, the agent will respond in
kind.
|
| gladys1 |
what is a VERY engaging
query letter to an agent?
|
| janfields |
A very engaging query
letter is one that's aware of the market.
|
| janfields |
What is selling hotly
right now?
|
| janfields |
Do you know the best
selling children's books in your genre?
|
| janfields |
For example, chick lit
is hot in YA.
|
| janfields |
And one of the
hallmarks of chick lit is humor and romance.
|
| janfields |
So if my YA book has
any humor and romance, I'll highlight that element
|
| janfields |
in my query letter
because it makes the agent say...wow...I bet I can sell
this.
|
| janfields |
Another bit seller in
middle grade is the school story...
|
| janfields |
especially, again, with
humor...so if my middle grade is funny
|
| janfields |
or features school --
in any way -- my query will hit that hard.
|
| janfields |
So...get to know what's
hot...not the names of the books so much as the
types...
|
| janfields |
and look for anything
in your book that looks a bit like that...
|
| janfields |
and highlights
it.
|
| janfields |
For example, my YA is
fantasy -- which is not so hot right now.
|
| janfields |
But it's also funny and
has a slight romantic bit -- so I hit humor and funny hard in the
query and downplay the fantasy.
|
| janfields |
Which makes my query
more engaging.
|
| janfields |
They I trust that my
WRITING is stong enough to overcome resistance to
fantasy.
|
| omalizzie |
Where do agents get their
credentials for this?
|
| janfields |
A good agent will have
a background in EITHER
|
| janfields |
A big literary
agency
|
| janfields |
or a big
publisher.
|
| janfields |
And agent who is "just"
a writer...and hangs out a single-agent shingle.
|
| janfields |
Is not going to be
effective in selling your manuscript.
|
| janfields |
Because his/her
contacts are not where they need to be.
|
| janfields |
And an agent is only as
effective as his contacts.
|
| janfields |
Now a writer can BECOME
a good agent...
|
| janfields |
but I would want to see
him/her being a junior agent or assistant agent...
|
| janfields |
at a reputable agency
for some time.
|
| janfields |
Then the agent can
"trade" on the contacts for the agency as a whole.
|
| janfields |
rite2kidz: How do you
get "recommeded" to agents who are closed to all submissions except
via recommendation?
|
| janfields |
Basically there are
plenty of agents who are not closed...go to them
first.
|
| janfields |
If you can't get an
agent at an open house -- look at your project.
|
| janfields |
There is something
about it...or about how you are presenting it that is the
problem.
|
| janfields |
Not your lack of
connections.
|
| janfields |
Agents who close their
doors to submissions except by referral do so because they have FULL
client lists.
|
| janfields |
They only want to take
on a new project if it will be a fast seller.
|
| janfields |
So...if you had a fast
seller...one of the open agencies would have snapped you
up...
|
| janfields |
long before you had to
think about contact.
|
| janfields |
But..how do you get
contacts? Mostly by attending a lot of writing
conferences...
|
| janfields |
not a cheap route --
so...for me. I would go to open houses.
|
| janfields |
rite2kidz: Could you
expand on Lauren's answer about how we can get an agent *after* a
publisher has made an offer on a book?
|
| janfields |
If you really want an
agent to do your negotiating for you.
|
| janfields |
But a publishing house
has contacted you and made an offer...
|
| janfields |
the important thing is
DON"T ACCEPT THE OFFER...
|
| janfields |
Tell the editor...I am
so thrilled...but I'm in the middle of getting an
agent...
|
| janfields |
can I get back to you
in a few days...
|
| janfields |
If the publisher wants
it...they won't say, "NO, GET OUT." They'll wait.
|
| janfields |
Publishing doesn't turn
on a dime...anyone who's ever submitted anything knows
that.
|
| janfields |
Okay...it's after
three.
|
| janfields |
Whew....I typed as fast
as I could.
|
| janfields |
Any unanswered
questions will be covered in the Monday enews.
|
| janfields |
Thanks writer
folks!
|