| janfields |
Join us this afternoon
in the AUDITORIUM- for an exciting Open Forum with web editor, Jan
Fields. Today's Topic is "Making Money from Your Writing." Bring
your QUESTIONS to this open forum—in five minutes.
|
| janfields |
Today's Open Forum Chat
will begin promptly at 3pm Atlantic/CANADA, 2pm Eastern, 1pm
Central, noon Mountain, and 11am Pacific. While you wait for the
Open Forum to start, feel free to use your ASK A QUESTION button
RIGHT BETWEEN THE YELLOW “MAP” AND THE RED QUESTION MARK IN ICHAT to
post some questions for discussion in chat -- open forum begins two
minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Hi! Welcome to Open
Forum. Today's Topic is "Making Money from your Writing." I'm your
moderator, Jan Fields. I've been writing for money for over 20 years
and lived on my writing income for quite a few of those years. So
let's talk about ways to turn your love of writing into
money.
|
| janfields |
|
| like answered or
discussed by using your "Ask a Question" icon/button. (It looks like
a thought bubble icon, RIGHT NEXT TO THE RED QUESTION MARK.) I will
post the questions one at a time in the chat room and do our best to
answer them. Also note: If you want to make it possible to ask the
longest question you can, first type “/ask” (without the quotation
marks), then leave one space after the end of “ask”, then type as
many characters of your question as you can. If your question is not
complete, send the second part next, then if necessary the third,
etc… |
|
|
|
| janfields |
I'm glad y'all have
joined with us to talk about money.
|
| janfields |
Money is an important
topic to writers.
|
| janfields |
We need
it.
|
| janfields |
Not only do we need
money for all the logical reasons (bills)
|
| janfields |
But we also need it for
validation.
|
| janfields |
Money means what we
created had value.
|
| janfields |
It "proves" us as
writers in many ways.
|
| janfields |
So, I want to look at
how to approach the career side...the money.
|
| janfields |
And also to take a
reasonable look at the question of living on what you
make.
|
| janfields |
But first...because
it's my favorite thing.
|
| janfields |
I wanna do some "good
news."
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS! ROSE says:
I'm very excited about this acceptance because it's taken me
thirteen years to break into this publication. Highlights for
Children accepted my craft titled, Fourth of July Plant Spikes. I
guess perseverance pays!
|
| janfields |
I love writing crafts
for Highlights.
|
| janfields |
Congratz...where else
can you know over a million kids saw your work?
|
| janfields |
MORE GOOD NEWS!
Marianne says: My GOOD NEWS (actually I see it as GREAT NEWS!!) is
that in March 2006's edition of Dragonfly Spirit one
|
| be published,
titled Extreme Dream, and I also had a poem accepted for publication
in April 2006, by none other than your wonderful Kid Magazine
Writers, titled My Funnies Have Gone. |
|
|
|
| janfields |
Dragonfly Spirit is a
darling little online magazine -- so good for you.
|
| janfields |
And, well, of course
I'm partial to KidMagWriters -- congratz HUGELY
Marianne
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS! Bettye
Stroud's book, THE PATCHWORK PATH, A QUILT MAP TO FREEDOM, has
|
| Gold Award. It
has bee named a NY Times Best Book of the Year, 2005, and has been
selected as an Awards Nominee by the Washington Library Media Asso,
2006. |
|
| janfields |
Yeah, Betty...that's a
HUGE award.
|
| janfields |
That one will show you
the money...fantastic.
|
| janfields |
Now, let's jump into
the topic...show me the money.
|
| writersblock |
WE know that what we
create has value. Getting money tells us that OTHERS know that what
we created has value! :-)
|
| janfields |
Yes, it
does.
|
| janfields |
Though some folks will
ALWAYS wonder why you write...
|
| janfields |
I had lived on my
writing income for YEARS...
|
| janfields |
And my mom still
clipped ads for REAL JOBS...
|
| janfields |
Writing just feels very
unstable as an income base.
|
| janfields |
Basically, you can
address a writing career in two ways...
|
| janfields |
You can go at it with
the concurrent idea of making money as you build your
career.
|
| janfields |
Or you can decide you
only want to write what you want to write...and WAIT for the
money.
|
| janfields |
Both ways can
work.
|
| caq |
I have heard people say
they write according to what mags want and others say they gear it
towards what they are interested in. What is the best way to write
to make money. Checking themes and writing what is requested makes
sense but so does writing what interests you.
|
| janfields |
You should never write
what TOTALLY doesn't interest you.
|
| janfields |
But within your general
interests, you do need to be flexible IF you want to make regular
money.
|
| janfields |
For example, to make
real money from fiction (the kind of money where you can quit your
day job)
|
| janfields |
Usually takes about ten
years...
|
| janfields |
That's how long the
fiction-only writers I know wrote before they started making REAL
money
|
| janfields |
The kind where you can
quit your day job if you don't mind living fairly
simply.
|
| janfields |
If you want to make
real money sooner than 10 years, you really...well...you gotta be
open to nonfiction.
|
| lilyphenix |
how much does it pay to
be publish in mags like Highlight or
|
| janfields |
Children's magazines
are all over in terms of pay scale.
|
| janfields |
Highlights can pay you
for a craft or a couple hundred for a feature
|
| janfields |
Boys' Life and American
Girl pay more of a competitive (competitive to adult magazines)
rate
|
| janfields |
With hundreds of
dollars.
|
| janfields |
My first ever magazine
sale paid
|
| janfields |
I sold an article with
accompanying craft to Teddy Bear and Friends
|
| janfields |
They don't pay as much
today...many craft magazines have pulled back on
rates.
|
| gladys1 |
if Highlights asked a few
months ago for historical fiction is it too late now to send it
in?
|
| janfields |
Highlights has a steady
love of historical fiction...so go for it.
|
| cosmos |
Is it best to try out
multiple types of writing and different genres or start out with one
and then broaden? If it takes 10 years, then 2009 is MY
year!
|
| janfields |
If you're sticking with
fiction.
|
| janfields |
Your best route is to
write what works best with your voice...
|
| janfields |
Your
interests...
|
| janfields |
The age group you
connect with...
|
| janfields |
Honestly, it's all
about you.
|
| janfields |
For me, fiction is
going to be middle grade or YA
|
| janfields |
I can sell light verse
for the little ones, but I can't seem to do much fiction for
them.
|
| janfields |
But that's MY
voice.
|
| janfields |
That's one area where
having a critique from a professional writer or editor can help...is
in identifying your natural voice.
|
| janfields |
Because a lot of folks
writing picture books, for example, have a middle grade
voice.
|
| janfields |
They would do great in
middle grade novels...but they're pegging away in picture books and
writing them too old
|
| janfields |
Right now, teen is
HOT...very hot...but some folks writing TEEN have a middle grade
voice...again, publishers are sending them
rejections
|
| janfields |
Because the characters
might ACT old but they sound young.
|
| caq |
Your first one sold for ,
has that been the norm for you or was that unusual?
|
| janfields |
When I wrote ONLY for
adult magazines...
|
| janfields |
I averaged from to per
article...
|
| janfields |
But I wrote for
high-end craft magazines (they paid a lot back
then)
|
| janfields |
And educational (which
paid low end...but did pay back then)
|
| janfields |
And parenting...I
wasn't a parent but I sold a LOT of parenting
material.
|
| janfields |
Now I write ONLY for
kids except for material I do about writing.
|
| janfields |
So my average magazine
rate is in the low hundreds.
|
| janfields |
But getting paid
spoiled me ROTTEN.
|
| janfields |
I had been in
newspapers, where you're doing well if they remember to pay
you.
|
| janfields |
I thought I'd found the
promised land.
|
| caq |
Why are the rates so low
for children's compared to adult?
|
| janfields |
Subscriber bases are
lower.
|
| janfields |
Ad rates (for magazines
with ads) are lower
|
| janfields |
And a good many
children's magazines are privately funded.
|
| janfields |
They just don't have
the deep commercial pockets of an adult market.
|
| janfields |
But there are things I
love about kid magazines.
|
| janfields |
The editors are MUCH
MUCH MUCH friendlier overall -- even though many are
overworked
|
| janfields |
And the kids who read
children's magazines are really DEVOTED readers
|
| janfields |
Plus, you can do school
visits as a magazine writer -- there is no real additional
money
|
| janfields |
outlet for writing for
adult magazines.
|
| high
hopes |
Can you make "real" money
selling puzzles, riddles, etc?
|
| janfields |
I know folks who make
decent money at that.
|
| janfields |
Many write for both
kids magazines and adult puzzle markets.
|
| janfields |
And they crank those
things out
|
| janfields |
Like dozens a
week.
|
| janfields |
I also know people who
make a living wage from writing craft articles.
|
| janfields |
Again selling to kid
markets and adult markets
|
| janfields |
There is a lot of money
in crafts if you like doing them and can do something unusual but
really nice looking.
|
| lilyphenix |
National geographic for
kids?
|
| janfields |
National Geographic is
a tough market to get into...
|
| janfields |
They want serious
publishing credits
|
| janfields |
They also want sources
to be first rate
|
| janfields |
But they do pay very
well...up there with Boys' Life.
|
| lilyphenix |
when writing for mags,
what topic is more lucrative? Science
|
| janfields |
The lucrative topic is
the one you love.
|
| janfields |
Really...if you're a
science nerd, you can make a lot of money from
science.
|
| janfields |
I know a couple writers
who do.
|
| janfields |
They do science for
magazines and for educational book publishers.
|
| janfields |
And they live on
it.
|
| janfields |
Biographies are the
same way.
|
| janfields |
And History...if you
love history.
|
| janfields |
Really -- it's what
connects with you.
|
| janfields |
Because if *I* tried to
write History...that would crash and burn.
|
| janfields |
I like reading it in
magazines but it's totally not my area...the research would make my
eyes cross.
|
| lilyphenix |
how is the market for
intercultural stories? (I'm foreign)
|
| janfields |
Magazines are hot for
authentic stories from non-US settings and
cultures.
|
| janfields |
In fact, Focus on the
Family Clubhouse ONLY buys fiction with "exotic" (meaning not common
US) settings.
|
| janfields |
But the story needs to
be as much about plot as about culture.
|
| janfields |
You gotta have
both.
|
| janfields |
Ness asks about writing
for 8 - 12 year old children.
|
| janfields |
That's one of the
broadest market ranges.
|
| janfields |
It's wide open...the
magazines I write for most in that area
|
| janfields |
Are Cricket, Spider,
Pockets, the Hopscotch group...
|
| janfields |
But if you like "tween"
stuff...you can go with Girl's Life, American Girl
|
| janfields |
Really, it's a huge
market area.
|
| kimber6 |
Is greeting card writing
an option for making money?
|
| janfields |
Not for
me.
|
| janfields |
I stink at greeting
card verse
|
| janfields |
I know a few folks who
supplement by doing verse (or illustrations) for
smallish
|
| janfields |
greeting card
companies
|
| janfields |
but you really have to
be good at it.
|
| janfields |
And the money is
undependable from what I've seen with those writing that
stuff.
|
| eggamy |
Jan, I'm not bragging but
I made 40. 00 selling a word searc
|
| eggamy |
search puzzle to the
Sunday School paper Guide that's good i
|
| janfields |
Hey, that's
good.
|
| janfields |
The rate for puzzles is
usually about so you got about double
|
| janfields |
And for a word search
yet...not everyone buys those.
|
| janfields |
Good
deal.
|
| lauriet |
Do editors expect you to
specialize (like science only)?
|
| janfields |
Nope.
|
| janfields |
I am so
flighty
|
| janfields |
I write about what
catches my eye RIGHT now
|
| janfields |
So I've done crafts
when I felt like crafts
|
| janfields |
I've done
plays
|
| janfields |
I've done
science
|
| janfields |
I've done biography
(not much, because it's sort of a yuck topic for
me)
|
| janfields |
Editors DO like
specialists because they can go to you if they need a
piece.
|
| janfields |
So they don't have to
wait for you to come to them.
|
| janfields |
BUT...you can still
sell even if you don't specialize.
|
| janfields |
No editor has ever
said, "no thanks, Jan, you're just too dang
eclectic."
|
| janfields |
But if you specialize,
you have a greater chance of editors coming to you looking for a
writer.
|
| janfields |
Basically, I only get
fiction editors coming to me anymore because my nonfiction is too
scattered.
|
| writersblock |
This is probably a silly
question, but why is the Nonfiction magazine market bigger than the
Fiction magazine market? It is, isn't it?
|
| janfields |
Oh
yes.
|
| janfields |
Very few magazines
publish fiction only.
|
| janfields |
Almost
none
|
| janfields |
But a number of
magazines publish nonfiction only
|
| janfields |
So if you're a magazine
writer only...you're going to have to do some
nonfiction
|
| janfields |
if you ever dream of
making enough money to seriously help out your
family.
|
| caq |
Ok, I understand this
question, but it is asked so often. What is an invoice and how do
you write one up?
|
| janfields |
I don't do a lot of
invoicing for children's magazines.
|
| janfields |
But I do almost always
have to invoice when I write for adult magazines.
|
| janfields |
Basically your invoice
must contain contact information (so they can mail you the
check...
|
| janfields |
or email/phone you with
any questions about payment)...
|
| janfields |
And it needs to contain
the EXACT information about the piece you're invoicing
about...
|
| janfields |
as much info as you
know...title/subject/issue date/date of your contract...whatever
info you've got.
|
| janfields |
And you'll need to send
your SS# unless they already have it.
|
| janfields |
And let them know
exactly how much money you're expecting.
|
| janfields |
And be sure to date
it.
|
| janfields |
The actual LOOK of the
invoice is flexible...just be sure it has all the information the
publisher needs to cut your check.
|
| birdi |
Jan, do you automatically
send the invoice? Or is it sent after a reasonable time of wating
for the payment?
|
| janfields |
If I'm working with a
newspaper...I invoice automatically.
|
| janfields |
If I'm working with an
adult magazine that does NOT have a contract...I invoice
automatically.
|
| janfields |
If the magazine has a
contract, I usually invoice only if I'm told to.
|
| janfields |
BUT...I've been known
to invoice when payment seems unusually slow.
|
| janfields |
Because the invoice
will contain all the information the publisher needs to figure out
where my check went.
|
| gladys1 |
so if you don't have a
contract with a publisher you send an invoice?
|
| janfields |
For adult mags, yes,
for children's magazines -- I only invoice if the editor tells me
to
|
| janfields |
Because mostly they
don't require an invoice.
|
| ness |
Jan, I guess the
invoicing would work different in Canada?
|
| janfields |
If you're invoicing a
US adult magazine/newspaper...it would be the same...even if you're
in Canada...
|
| janfields |
Except that you
wouldn't send a social security number
|
| janfields |
You don't have one and
they don't need one for you.
|
| janfields |
For Canadian
magazines...I honestly don't know. I've never sold to a Canadian mag
for adults.
|
| writersblock |
So if you are a fiction
writer, the best way to go is books/novels?
|
| janfields |
If you're a fiction
writer -- the surest money is in Work for hire
|
| janfields |
Which you can get if
you have some solid magazine fiction credits.
|
| janfields |
Work for hire is flat
fee publishing...usually set up by a book packager.
|
| janfields |
They develop a story
line...then they look for writers who have SOME
credits
|
| janfields |
But not too many
credits...since too many credits suggest a writer who will charge
too much.
|
| janfields |
You usually don't get
long to do the books...I've had about 3 months for a middle
grade.
|
| janfields |
And you USUALLLY don't
get your name on the books.
|
| janfields |
And sometimes you
aren't even allowed to use them as credits
|
| janfields |
But you get
money
|
| janfields |
Sometimes I like money
more than bylines
|
| caq |
In Work for hire, who's
name is on the books?
|
| janfields |
The "name" of the
author who is supposed to be writing the series.
|
| janfields |
For example, The Gossip
Girl books have Cicily van Ziegler (maybe spelled wrong) but she
doesn't write them.
|
| janfields |
The Babysitter's Club
was heavily ghosted, I believe.
|
| janfields |
And I know Animorphs
was ghosted at the end...but I'm not supposed to say HOW I
know...shhhhh
|
| kimber6 |
So you can't "break in"
with work for hire books?
|
| janfields |
Sometimes, sure. If
you're writing for an established line.
|
| janfields |
And they don't make you
sign away your write to tell everyone.
|
| janfields |
And sometimes, if you
sign on at the beginning of a series...it might even be your name on
the book.
|
| janfields |
I was asked to "try
out" for a series of books with fairies in them.
|
| janfields |
If I "won" my name
would have been on the WHOLE series...even if I didn't write
them
|
| janfields |
But...the publisher
decided to fold the series because two similar series
existed.
|
| lilyphenix |
How well would you say
Work for hire pay?
|
| janfields |
I know folks who do
Work for Hire for educational publishers...
|
| janfields |
And it pays from -
depending.
|
| janfields |
On the low end of the
scale...you're writing under 500 words.
|
| janfields |
Work for Hire for
fiction packagers tends to run more like -
|
| janfields |
The fairy series would
have paid was a very small packager though
|
| caq |
So is Cicily Van Ziegler
didn't writte the book, who IS Cicily Van Ziegler. Is that a real
person?
|
| janfields |
Yes, Cicily is
real...she "created" the series idea...wrote some character
stuff...but not the books.
|
| janfields |
Stephanie asks: I like
being a teacher, and hope to get a part-time teaching job some day,
so I can write more. I'd like to eventually transition to full-time
writing. What can I do, in the meantime (at least a couple of years)
to help me make a transition to a writer who makes enough money to
make up for the teaching job (I'd be ecstatic if I could make
,000/yr. writing, since that's more than I make teaching.)
|
| janfields |
Most of the teachers I
know write stuff related to what they teach.
|
| janfields |
They do nonfiction
based on what they do in the classroom...or idea they would do if
they had time.
|
| janfields |
They do nonfiction
based on what they see the kids "REALLY" into.
|
| janfields |
They do school story
fiction.
|
| janfields |
Many do primarily short
stuff because of the time issue.
|
| janfields |
And the creative drain
issue.
|
| janfields |
When you have a job
that pulls on your creativity...that is draining.
|
| janfields |
And it's hard to "put
out" for your own work...
|
| janfields |
But it can come down to
doing scraps and building up.
|
| janfields |
It does take
longer.
|
| janfields |
But I know teachers who
are "making it."
|
| janfields |
Many of them spend
years on each novel though.
|
| lilyphenix |
Just for info it is Cecil
Von Ziegler... *smile*
|
| janfields |
Thanks...I had the pile
of Gossip Girl books on my desk through the whole contest
time.
|
| janfields |
But now that they're in
the mail...I can't spell :-)
|
| tolkienlvr |
Jan, where do you look
for work for hire opps?
|
| janfields |
There are a couple good
places.
|
| janfields |
One is the discussion
board (sometimes called the BLUE BOARD) at
verlakay.com
|
| janfields |
Another place I see a
LOT of these is on yahoogroups mailing lists...
|
| janfields |
NFforKids
|
| janfields |
Childrens-Writers
|
| janfields |
People are incredibly
generous on those boards and lists.
|
| janfields |
When they see one of
these opportunities, they post it.
|
| janfields |
For me personally...I
don't get involved unless the publisher contacts me
directly.
|
| janfields |
I just don't have
time.
|
| janfields |
But I have editors and
agents who recommend me ...often.
|
| janfields |
I am not sure
why.
|
| janfields |
Maybe they've seen how
I dress and figure I need the money.
|
| caq |
Do you have to watch out
for scams in work for hire ads?
|
| janfields |
Some...yeah.
|
| janfields |
That's why I don't hang
out at Craig's List and the other freelance lists
|
| janfields |
I don't have time to
vette the offers.
|
| janfields |
BUT if you wait for the
ones to post to VerlaKay or the yahoogroups
boards...
|
| janfields |
there are usually pros
there who question EVERYTHING
|
| janfields |
so if it seems
fishy...lots of folks will speak up.
|
| janfields |
It's hard to get
steered wrong there.
|
| morningmist |
Hi Jan. Is there money
and demand for writers in comic books
|
| janfields |
Not
really.
|
| janfields |
But there is money
these days in graphic novels.
|
| janfields |
Which are the next big
thing.
|
| janfields |
So if you have a good
mind for comic books, you might want to look into who is
publishing
|
| janfields |
graphic novels (look in
the teen section of your bookstore)
|
| janfields |
and pitch to
them.
|
| janfields |
Comic books are a whole
specialized field and incredibly hard to break into
|
| janfields |
It's a very "who you
know" kind of field.
|
| jolie |
/ask What is a graphic
novel?
|
| janfields |
It's a novel that looks
a lot like a comic book...
|
| janfields |
They started out as a
popular way to lure reluctant readers...
|
| janfields |
to read "classics" --
so for a while...
|
| janfields |
there was a HUGE demand
for folks to write classics into
|
| janfields |
graphic novel
scripts...
|
| janfields |
but now the big push is
the anime (Japanese animation) type look and story
feel.
|
| stephenie |
I just ordered The Red
Badge of Courage in graphic novel
|
| stephenie |
form. I can't wait to
read it.
|
| janfields |
Yeah, I read Dracula as
a graphic novel...and Moby Dick....very cool.
|
| caq |
How do you go about
trying to get the work for hire job that interests you? Are the
requirements and who to contact listed in the
listings?
|
| janfields |
The requirements are
usually quite clear in the listing.
|
| janfields |
And one of the nice
things about getting a listing from a children's writing board or
list...
|
| janfields |
is you can usually ask
if anyone has worked with the folks before...
|
| janfields |
and they will tell you
without being all...shhhh...my field...too much
competition...grumpy
|
| janfields |
like you sometimes see
on adult boards.
|
| lilyphenix |
how do you pay your tax?
What expenses are deduced
|
| janfields |
Right now I make WAY
too much money.
|
| janfields |
So we have to do the
self-employment quarterly payment deal
|
| janfields |
And it sucks the crap
out of all my checks.
|
| janfields |
But if you aren't
making a lot and you file jointly with your spouse
|
| janfields |
You can usually not
deal with paying in throughout the year
|
| janfields |
As long as your spouse
is taking plenty out of his/her check.
|
| janfields |
As for what you can
deduct...
|
| janfields |
Pretty much any
expenses...paper, ink, pens, logical stuff like
that.
|
| janfields |
All writing books...all
children's books...all children's magazines -- they're all
research.
|
| janfields |
Your office
space
|
| janfields |
Fees you pay to writing
organizations.
|
| janfields |
Postage
|
| writersblock |
So if you're name is on
the series, do you get paid more? Is there some special
arrangement?
|
| janfields |
Nope, not really. You
sign these vicious contracts for most work for
hire.
|
| janfields |
And they aren't into
paying you more than they have to.
|
| janfields |
Well...wow...it's after
3pm
|
| janfields |
I know I didn't get to
everyone.
|
| janfields |
Though I tried to type
fast.
|
| janfields |
But I'll answer the
rest in the Monday
newsletter
|